When your unit moves across an enemy province, you "pillage" it for its base tax value.
Rivalling France gives you more prestige in won battles.
Patch 1.4 100 Years War with England (Success)
- Thread starter Bibor
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When your unit moves across an enemy province, you "pillage" it for its base tax value.
Rivalling France gives you more prestige in won battles.
Another point that may help in 1.4- you can pick the "improve our prestige" mission for 1 stability - will help with revolts and add some income... Usually you will get it after you start turning the tides 2-3 years in
Ah yes, that's a good point, I hadn't looked carefully at that second mission. It's certainly great to have that new choice, and if one can get out of the first war at low cost and then find allies who will join a second war, overall he could potentially achieve the victory at much lower cost. Especially as only 60% WS is then required.
I have two concerns:
1. What do you think this means exactly? I'm on a tablet this evening and can't check:
Code:
french_region = {
owned_by = ROOT
is_core = ROOT
}Doesn't that mean that you only get the mission if you already own and have cored the entire French region? That would seem to remove the entire point of the mission, but I can't see what else this could mean? ROOT is definitely you, England. Maybe french_region is just a small area? But requiring cores on any of France's original provinces immediately makes this a far less compelling prospect.
Am I misunderstanding that part? Can you confirm what french_region corresponds to exactly?
All I can find on the wiki is this: http://www.eu4wiki.com/French_region. I can't see if that corresponds to french_region. But it can't, because if you owned all that, France would not exist!
2. The Occupy Paris mission is available immediately at game start. I cant check the code at the moment, but my concern is that it would no longer be available by the time of a second war. Also, one does not get the Vassalise Scotland mission until Occupy Paris is taken.
Once the code is reviewed it might be possible to see a way around both these issues. But in general I would say that the player wants to take and complete Occupy Paris if at all possible, because those claims on Burgundy and Provence will be very helpful.
If this means that the player needs to complete this during the HYW, then a lot of the benefits of a second war disappear. If one is able to complete a siege on Ile-de-France then one has nearly won the HYW, and it will usually be cheaper to continue and win the war rather than end and start a second one, even if that brings allies.
If those two concerns can be resolved profitably then I agree it could well be more resource-efficient to get out of the HYW as quickly as possible and come back, before 1475, with allies to take France for 60% WS.
I believe it simply means that you have a single province in the french region owned and cored. If it required you to own all provinces in the french region then it would have type = all, if i understand correctly. For example the code for the requirement for the Chrysanthemum Throne achievement is as follows:
Code:
possible = {
ironman = yes
start_date = 1444.11.11
government = daimyo
}
happened = {
tag = JAP
japanese_region = {
type = all
OR = {
is_empty = yes
owned_by = JAP
}
}
}Occupy Paris can only be taken if you are at war with France. If you make peace with France without completing the mission, then it will fail. When you are at truce with France, you'll get the Vassalize Scotland mission. Occupy Paris will not be available for the second war, since you need your mission to be 'Force Union on France'. In the long run, though, this isn't a huge deal to me. You already start with a core on Picardie, and France has cores on Maine/Anjou, and you'll have France in a PU so their cores are going to be your cores. This really just means you lose the 4 claims on southern Burgundy, which is a decent trade off to save a bunch of ducats and manpower early in the game to deal with lollards/war of roses.
Even if it eventually proves less optimal to do it this way, it's still a really nice out in case things go south in the first war.
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Ah yes of course, so that's fine. Any of Normandie, Caux, Labourd, Gascsogne and Calais should count the. So you could give up two or three to get out of the HYW quickly and still qualify.
Yes that's true.
Although I'm still not fully convinced that it's the optimal path, the Vassalise France mission definitely offers an intriguing alternative which will be well worth testing.
In 1.3 Parallel Pain would win the HYW while vassalising Scotland, with no allies or at most just Portugal assisting only against Scotland (a time saver more than a resource saver), ending in 1452 with 250+ gold, 12+k manpower, 10+k remaining troops, and no loans.
Unless the combat changes in 1.4 and 1.5 have had any significant impact on the relative strength of ENG v FRA, that should still apply. The advantages of doing it that way will be those four claims on Burgundy, which at the least are worth 4 years of diplomat time, or several hundred admin points, whichever way round you assess it, and similarly I would attach at least a little value to those Provence claims; at the very least they're a free CB on Provence to then Return Core to France. Even more important, the fact that you'll finish with France, and have her available as your subject attack dog, by 1452-1454 instead of a decade or two later. That means you can then use her to pile into Burgundy, Provence, Brittany and sew up the whole of the French Region by 1500, and then switch your focus to colonising early; dealing with the Iberians; getting into the HRE; and so on.
All of that is possible with the mission of course, but it feels more optimal to get France dealt with in the first decade of the game to thus use her in all future plans, rather than having her still looming there, possibly making things harder (perhaps DOWing you after five years and a day, when it's not optimal for you), and definitely not under your control and furthering your plans.
One counter argument, in favour of the mission, is the fact that in an un-modded 1.5 game, subjects will only buy cores, claims and previously owned. That extra 10-20 years of French freedom would give her time to fabricate a bunch of claims which you could then use to feed her once you do control her. That may be quite a significant benefit. Though probably not significant for me as I plan to play with the new VASSAL_FABRICATE_CLAIMS=1 mod flag for the majority of my games. But in general games, that could be an important factor.
So it needs to be tested. How soon can England get out of the HYW and at what cost? How many claims will France generally Fabricate that can later be used to feed her? How soon can England come back to fight again, what allies can you bring, and what is the delta in resource usage between the two ways of fighting the war? What is the practical value of those four Burgundy and two Provence claims? What is the impact of not having France under control in the years 1452 until whenever the player can generally start the second war? What is the impact of integrating France - if indeed the player does so - in 1525 instead of 1505?
Loads of questions, and it's awesome we have this new alternative to try out
These decisions are what make the game so awesome.Even if the HYW way does prove to still be optimal, there will be many players who don't want to play a gamey AI-baiting strategy to achieve it and would rather lose the war, as England is meant to, and come back later for another go.
Thanks very much for raising the vassalisation mission - it's going to be great fun testing all the permutations and 1.5's England V France thread promises to be the most interesting yet!
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Another tip, and while you may consider it save scumming, is that you can copy your ironman save away from your steam directory and than replace the steam version if the future events don't play out well in your favor.Normally, I don't advocate this method but I given the fact of so many factors have fall in your favor at the start, I don't want to have to restart from scratch a multitude of times.
I don't seem to be able to ally both Castile and Austria. 5 restarts and every time one or the other will rival me on December 12th before I can ally them.
somehow if the castilan/austrian king has militaristic personality it will happen.
have you set france as your rival? as for me, castile always made me rival if their king has militaristic personality and i forgot to set france as rival.
as for austria, it never happened with me..
Thanks for the strat, i just integrated France and got the achievement . I also conquered Ireland & integrated Schotland, now i need to rush to level 10 administration to form GB. Meanwhile im just bashing burgundy off the map, because i can .
I also noticed Fez was suddenly in Morocco, so i went ahead and DOW them and make em my vassel to feed em the rest of morocco later (taking -2 stab lol). Took defensive & Naval ideas to get the Traditional achievement. Now i'm just thinking of what i could do.... Maaaaaybbeeee HRE? I'll post a screen once im home
. I also conquered Ireland & integrated Schotland, now i need to rush to level 10 administration to form GB. Meanwhile im just bashing burgundy off the map, because i can . I also noticed Fez was suddenly in Morocco, so i went ahead and DOW them and make em my vassel to feed em the rest of morocco later (taking -2 stab lol). Took defensive & Naval ideas to get the Traditional achievement. Now i'm just thinking of what i could do.... Maaaaaybbeeee HRE? I'll post a screen once im home
Thanks for the strat, i just integrated France and got the achievement
I also noticed Fez was suddenly in Morocco, so i went ahead and DOW them and make em my vassel to feed em the rest of morocco later (taking -2 stab lol). Took defensive & Naval ideas to get the Traditional achievement. Now i'm just thinking of what i could do.... Maaaaaybbeeee HRE? I'll post a screen once im home
Now that I played my "Frengland" game to 1820, I would stay away from HRE. Its just so much easier to expand into the Iberian Peninsula. And more lucrative too. If you plan to expand into the HRE, vassalize 3-4 electors first, then disband the HRE. The reason why it would be a good idea to expand into Iberia is because it will make Austria your only real enemy.
Why on earth would you want to disband HRE? If you have conquering in mind then HRE is invaluable for that.
The HRE is not my thing. Too much diplomatic ties to otherwise completely insignificant entities.
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Yeah, using zero diplomatic relations for 30-45 vassals really bogs one down?
Yeah, was thinking of disbanding it for the lolz of it. I do need to beat up spain a bit since the Iberian wedding just happened (luckily Arag failed at keeping Naples in a PU).
Disbanding the HRE to avoid diplomatic wrangling is like cutting off your feet to avoid the hassle of shoe shopping.
If by the mid 1600s the Emperor managed to enact whopping two reforms and is sticking to permanent 0 imperial authority. I had some other priorities, like breaking Burgundy and grabbing the Americas from the evil Portugese and Spanish. Even if I managed to get to become the emperor, it would've happened too late.
I agree, the HRE is a great thing if you focus on Europe, rather than the New World. In that case you can probably grab HRE by early 1500s.
What is the recommended first idea group? I want to smash Portugal and landlock Castile but as well smash Burgundy too while I have France under my thumb. I was thinking Admin for cheaper core costs and cheaper mercenaries - have to core provinces in Iberia - or Offensive - though I really don't plan to use my armies with France doing the heavy lifting. Really want to avoid a Diplo idea group until my 2nd pick because the 0/0/0 king start and the need to rush to diplo 7 to get a jump start on colonizing.
It's great for any game
Even if you don't take a single European vassal that could be privileged (DipRel free) and even if you don't want to convert any Protectorates to vassals via the Revoke reform, the general bonuses you get for being emperor and enacting the first few reforms are useful in every game. The only downside is that it might be too OP and one might want to have more challenge
The only 'too late' is if the emperor has got as far as Erbkaisertum and made it hereditary. Before that it doesn't matter when you take over. In fact there's an argument that it's better to take over a bit later once he's passed a few reforms. You then get those immediately. In effect you let the current emperor do the hard work of passing two or three reforms, then steal them. (personally I feel that a change of emperor should roll back at least one reform and reset IA to 0.)
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It's great for any game
The only downside is that it might be too OP and one might want to have more challenge
The only 'too late' is if the emperor has got as far as Erbkaisertum and made it hereditary. Before that it doesn't matter when you take over. In fact there's an argument that it's better to take over a bit later once he's passed a few reforms. You then get those immediately. In effect you let the current emperor do the hard work of passing two or three reforms, then steal them. (personally I feel that a change of emperor should roll back at least one reform and reset IA to 0.)
I already had more troops and income than all nations in Europe combined. Oh I probably for got to mention I integrated The Commonwealth from a PU
I was able to secure a forced PU with an intact Portugal in the early 1460s. If you integrate a nation under a PU that has colonial nations, do those colonial nations become independent?
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