Patch 1.4 100 Years War with England (Success)

[the_turtle]

I have now tried this strategy five times, and I have yet to successfully ally Castille. Each time I RM, but before I can send another diplomat they've already rivalled me making an alliance impossible. Is there a solution to this problem?

You may just have been unlucky, I've had that with some Castillian rulers myself. Check what kind of ruler Castille has. If it's an administrator, diplomat or balanced, they shouldn't rival you before Dec 12th. Don't wait longer than that, and don't forget to send both alliance requests on the same day before unpausing.

 

[UGAswimmer]

I've tried this quite a few times. The problem is that Austria hasn't once helped me. They just sit and do nothing (even when they are only at war with France via me), and then France won't send troops into Spain. They just linger in Southeast France even though they have already won the sieges in those bottom two provinces. Anyone have any advice? Also occasionally I have 3 diplomats thanks to being Curia Controller. Who should I try and get as a 3rd ally to help me in the war?

 

[Sir-Rogers]

Thank you! Perfect Strategy! +100 ups.

The trick here was getting the allies to help you, that just makes it so easy. I had the +morale and -revolt risk advisors right away. I didn't have to reload or retry once, worked on the first attempt. I love you Now thinking about what I can do with this unstoppable superpower ...

I have 20k MP and 100 gold left. No loans! Epic

 

[Easy Max]

Sadly. I've found this strategy isnt working for me. At all.

Four or five tries in a row. The France AI isnt attacking my allies at all. All that happens is France Routs off the castillian army (which somewhat blindly marches 20k into southern France and gets crushed. Never again mounting a challenge.

Austria builds about 30k of troops, but hides them at the extreme far end of Austrian territory. The france AI sieges my continental provinces, and then just shadows back and forth, never commiting to a large battle unless it's against me (Sometimes I can land 35k over there, but even if I win. I cannot pursue without getting routed deep in their territory. If I wait it out, their MP replenishes and I've made no gain.

 

[BierGrills]

Seem i got super unlucky. I tried it 2 times now and lost thx to War of the Roses and a Castilian vs. France succession War of Portugal that started at 27.12.1444 -.- But France had no MR with Portugal... so how?

 

[Bibor]

Hi folks, I'm sorry if for some of you the strategy isn't working out. The possible issue here might be iberian relations, specifically between Navarra, Castile and Aragon. If France is not able to secure military access through Navarra, they won't be able to move into Castile.

Another solution might be to Ally Navarra as well, at least temporarily, and drag them into the war against the Irish Minor, if possible. I have to check this one out. This will make France siege down Navarra as well, and give it free access to Castile.

 

[TheBloke]

I think it's worth noting that back in 1.3 we used to do it without any ally help, or at most Portugal. I'm not aware of any general gameplay changes that would make it harder in 1.4 to do without allies.

Plus from 1.5, that will be the only option - allies won't join the war at all.

I recommend anyone having trouble also reads Parallel Pain's guides in the 1.3 thread (and/or Bibor you might want to merge in some of Parallel Pain's detailed advance on chipping away at the French?):

The Hundred Years War, England 1.3

He goes into a lot of detail on how to overcome the French, and it assumes you have no allies, or at most just Portugal - whose only help is to distract the French, not to beat them, and often didn't help against France at all, only Scotland. In particular he details the "north and south" strategy, whereby you alternate between attacking the North and South of France, confusing the AI and slowly destroying all the little stacks until France is weak enough to combine all your stacks and cripple them in one decisive battle.

 

[Bibor]

I think it's worth noting that back in 1.3 we used to do it without any ally help, or at most Portugal. I'm not aware of any general gameplay changes that would make it harder in 1.4 to do without allies.

Plus from 1.5, that will be the only option - allies won't join the war at all.

There are two significant changes in 1.5:
- allies won't be able to join existing wars
- the first quest for England will be to "Get France under PU" with a 100-year duration.

This will make my strategy almost completely obsolete.

I presume the strategy will be to fight to keep the British cores in France, the coming back with a full complement of Allies: Castile, (Aragon?), Austria and Portugal. And perhaps even Burgundy will declare on France if you manage to "chip away" at France's manpower sufficiently.
Moreover, Provance will be on France's kill list, instead of being allied with them in the war.

As the 100 years war was a series of wars, this will probably play out more "historically accurate".

 

[TheBloke]

There are two significant changes in 1.5:
- the first quest for England will be to "Get France under PU" with a 100-year duration.

I don't understand this one - what do you mean 'quest'? There's nothing in the patch notes about it. Of course that's no guarantee of no changes, I admit

In 1.4.1.1 beta, the England start seems to be the same: at war with France, with an 84% wargoal to PU them in that same way.

The only change I've noticed (and admittedly I've only played the first couple of months of the England start in the beta) is that there's no Vassalise Scotland mission right from the start. But it comes soon enough. There is an Occupy Paris mission for 5 Prestige, which one could get easily in the normal course of beating France. As soon as I completed that mission (I cheated and used controll 183 from the Console to complete the mission immediately), the Vassalise Scotland mission appears in its place.

So besides the major change of not being able to call in allies, I'm not seeing anything different - and I don't know what you're referring to by this first Quest thing? I've not scanned the event/mission/decision files thoroughly yet looking for changes, is that what you've done to see something different?

If the only change is the allies, then the 1.3 strategy that Parallel Pain outlined should probably work without many or any changes. He wrote that on the assumption that if Portugal joined, they'd only join against Scotland; and having them against Scotland at best just saves a few months, nothing major.

 

[TheBloke]

Here's something interesting I just noticed in England 1.4.1.1 start - England has claims all over central/Northern France and a bit of Burgundy!

• Ile de France
• Vermandois
• Champagne
• Nemours
• Berry
• Alencon
• Maine
• Anjou
• Bourbon
• Nevers
• Bourgogne
• Franche-Comte

That's certainly a big change - is that part of what you're referring to?

 

[Bibor]

I found this in the patchotes:

- vassalize_france mission is now about establishing a union instead

and

- Increased duration of CB on Form Personal Union missions from 10 to 100 years

 

[TheBloke]

I found this in the patchotes:

- vassalize_france mission is now about establishing a union instead

and

- Increased duration of CB on Form Personal Union missions from 10 to 100 years

Right OK - so I don't think that really changes the England start as we are currently playing it.

It does offer up the alternative of getting out of the French war quickly, and then coming back later with the Vassalise France mission and getting the same result.

I can't immediately think of many good reasons as to why one would want to do that, because winning the HYW that the game opens with is pretty straightforward once one gets the hang of it. But some players might prefer it I suppose, either because they're failing to win the HYW from game start, or because they think it's more historical or something (as England is meant to lose the HYW; not of course that they're ever meant to get a PU any time later )

So yeah I think once 1.5 comes out, we can just go back to the 1.3 no-ally strategy. These new French claims are interesting, but again they don't seem to change the starting strategy; they would only make a difference if one wasn't getting a PU with France in the first war, and was instead picking away at them and maybe never PUing at all.

The Burgundy claims on the other hand, they're interesting Especially for me as Burgundy was always my first target, immediately after I beat France.

 

[TheBloke]

Here's something interesting I just noticed in England 1.4.1.1 start - England has claims all over central/Northern France and a bit of Burgundy!

Ooh, actually these are not there at the start of the game.

They are added by taking, and completing, the "Occupy Paris" mission. That's a completely hidden reward! The reward just says you get 5 Prestige. It fails to mention that you get 18 Claims, several of which are on Burgundy and Provence!

So taking that mission is an absolute no-brainer at the start of a 1.5 game. You're going to complete it anyway as part of beating France to get the HYW, and those claims on Burgundy are yummy. In fact, it's also a nice safety net; if you fail to beat France and have to end the war without the PU, but you do manage to control Ile-de-France even for a moment, those claims will give you cheap annexation and coring of nearly all the French provinces later.

Here's the mission text:

Spoiler

occupy_paris = {
    
    type = country


    category = MIL
    
    allow = {
        tag = ENG
        exists = FRA
        war_with = FRA
        NOT = { is_year = 1475 }
        french_region = { owned_by = ROOT }
        FRA = { controls = 183 }
        183 = { is_capital = yes }
        NOT = { has_country_flag = has_occupied_paris }
    }
    abort = {
        OR = {
            NOT = { war_with = FRA }
            any_ally = { controls = 183 }
        }
    }
    success = {
        controls = 183
    }
    chance = {
        factor = 1000
        modifier = {
            factor = 2
            mil = 4
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 2
            FRA = {
                NOT = { mil = 2 }
            }
        }
    }
    effect = {
        gallia = { add_claim = ROOT }
        add_prestige = 5
        set_country_flag = has_occupied_paris
    }
}

And this is the fun bit:

    effect = {
        gallia = { add_claim = ROOT }
        add_prestige = 5
        set_country_flag = has_occupied_paris
    }

Gallia is a region, defined as:

gallia = {
        87 89 167 168 177 178 179 182 183 184 185 186 190 191 192 193 1877 1879
}

That's 18 provinces you get claims on!

Which are:

Province	ID	Owner 1444
Calais	87	England
Picardie	89	Burgundy
Caux	167	England
Normandie	168	England
Maine	177	Provence
Anjou	178	Provence
Berry	179	Berry
Vermandois	182	France
Ile de France	183	France
Orleanais	184	Orleans
Nemours	185	France
Champagne	186	France
Bourbon	190	Bourbonnais
Nevers	191	Burgundy
Bourgogne	192	Burgundy
Franche-Comte	193	Burgundy
Charolais	1877	Burgundy
Alencon	1879	France

Not bad at all! The English, French and French vassal ones we mostly don't care about, in a normal game. But the Burgundy and Provence ones are most welcome!

 

[Sir-Rogers]

Hi just a quick observation: Bibor you might want to test and add this if my theory proves to be correct.

A lot of people are complaining that French forces don't attackt their allies, I believe this might help change it:

By the time you have retreated your troops to the mainland and are forging claims against the Irish minor, the French are sieging all your provinces,

with its big stacks in the North provinces and small stacks in the south provinces. If this happens and you take your allies into the war, France usually won't attack them but rather patrol with its doomstack.

The way to fix this is: Take your 14stack that you use to annihilate small forces and head down to the south provinces, while yes you need speed to not go below -25%, it is not necessary for France to have sieged all 4 provinces. The trick is that France sieges down the North provinces, and you attack the south ones, annihilating one of the batallions that was sieging your province, so while all other 3 are captured, one is not. Your attack will lure the doomstack to the south, if you head straight back to the mainland, it will siege the 4th province, and the doomstack will stay in the south.

Now distance to an enemy, i.e. the proximity of the AI's army to the oponent seems to play a very VERY important role in AI decision making. Thus having the doomstack near the Spain border, when you declare war on the Irish minor and call in your allies, the doomstack will head straight into the Iberian Peninsula where it will most likely be annihilated.

 

[milman]

i just build 20 cogs and attack small stacks for a few years. Afther that you just land all your troops win one big battle, destroy main stack of France and war is practicly over. You do need to pay atention on your WE, but if you dont lose too much battles you wont have problems. So except few cogs you dont need anything else. No loans, no mercs, no aditional ground troops, no allies.

They changed something with AI so they now never siege with big stacks. Even when they siege with big stack if you siege their provinces on other side of country they will leave small stack and send everything else to chase you.

 

[TheBloke]

By the time you have retreated your troops to the mainland and are forging claims against the Irish minor, the French are sieging all your provinces,

with its big stacks in the North provinces and small stacks in the south provinces. If this happens and you take your allies into the war, France usually won't attack them but rather patrol with its doomstack.

The way to fix this is: Take your 14stack that you use to annihilate small forces and head down to the south provinces, while yes you need speed to not go below -25%, it is not necessary for France to have sieged all 4 provinces. The trick is that France sieges down the North provinces, and you attack the south ones, annihilating one of the batallions that was sieging your province, so while all other 3 are captured, one is not. Your attack will lure the doomstack to the south, if you head straight back to the mainland, it will siege the 4th province, and the doomstack will stay in the south.

Now distance to an enemy, i.e. the proximity of the AI's army to the oponent seems to play a very VERY important role in AI decision making. Thus having the doomstack near the Spain border, when you declare war on the Irish minor and call in your allies, the doomstack will head straight into the Iberian Peninsula where it will most likely be annihilated.

Yeah this is exactly the "North and South" strategy that Parallel Pain detailed in the 1.3 thread, and hence why I recommend people still read that (and maybe Bibor could incorporate a paste of those details in his first post.)

As of 1.5, this will be the only strategy again - the allies will no longer apply.

 

[Bibor]

yeah, I'm unable to play for the last three days now (on the seaside), but I will test the Parallel Pain's strategy heavily once I get back and obviously incorporate it. Although, I think it would be more fair if I would add my observations to *his* strategy thread instead

 

[TheBloke]

yeah, I'm unable to play for the last three days now (on the seaside), but I will test the Parallel Pain's strategy heavily once I get back and obviously incorporate it. Although, I think it would be more fair if I would add my observations to *his* strategy thread instead

Well his is 1.3 so probably few are reading it any more He pasted it in half a dozen other threads already, I doubt he'll mind!

Your 1.4 strategy is still fine for most people. It's just when 1.5 comes out with no-allies - and we'll want to talk about the new Occupy Paris must-have mission - that it'll be more important to incorporate the original strategy ideas. So new thread for 1.5 I'd say, and if he's still around he can post his guide in there again, and if he's not (I haven't seen him post for a few weeks) then just quote it in yours Better that than good info gets lost/buried!

 

[VelvetMirror]

The money you get from moving across French lands should keep you afloat till the end of your campaign.

I don't understand this, why do you gain money traveling across France?

Also, is it a good idea to rival france and embargoing them or is there any negative side effect?

 

[RandomZach]

As of 1.5, this will be the only strategy again - the allies will no longer apply.

I don't believe this is the necessarily the case. In 1.5 you can get the 'vassalize_france' mission which gives the restore union CB. This means you no longer need to win the first war to get the PU, you can come back later with friends like you can currently do in 1.4, only now it'll only cost you 60% warscore.

The conditions for the mission are as follows:

	allow = {
		tag = ENG
		exists = FRA
		is_subject = no
		NOT = { is_year = 1475 }
		french_region = {
			owned_by = ROOT
			is_core = ROOT
		}
		FRA = {
			is_subject = no
			NOT = { num_of_infantry = ROOT }
			NOT = { num_of_cavalry = ROOT }
			NOT = { num_of_cities = ROOT }
		}
		NOT = { truce_with = FRA }
		NOT = { war_with = FRA }
	}

None of those conditions are particularly difficult to achieve. England starts with 23 provinces to France's 13. Even if you take no territory from Scotland or Ireland and lose territory initially to France, it'd be difficult for France to pull ahead in province count in the span of 1 truce or take all of England's french territory in 1 war. England also starts with the larger force limit as well, and the AI is unlikely to drastically exceed its limit in peace time. You're also pretty much guaranteed to get the mission if you meet these conditions.