Aren't these normally staples of Mechwarrior games? Is it less of a thing in TT Battletech?
Passive Sensors/Manual Shutdown?
- Thread starter Chaotic-Entropy
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In TT, users have perfect information about their opponent unless they're using very niche optional rules, so usually such things don't come into play.
In MechWarrior/MechCommander games for sure, I don't know about BattleTech TT though.
I'm not even sure how it would work in TT since everything is setup on a board for everyone to see. Maybe leave a mech off the field and only place it if it powers up or an OpFor moves within X amount of hexes to it?
In anycase, I think it was left out of this game because of pacing (at least in Multiplayer). Hiding a unit on a large map could bog a game down.
Also mechanics wise it might be a bit tricky or awkward. Since the map can be visually seen from a birds eye view, how do you hide a powered down mech, especially if the "fog of war" is lifted?
Besides, it takes one full turn to power up, so it would be almost impossible to effectively use it as an ambush mechanic. If anything, it could be seen as a handicap more than anything else.
I'm guessing there is just too many things working against the mechanic to have made it worth while.
I'm not even sure how it would work in TT since everything is setup on a board for everyone to see. Maybe leave a mech off the field and only place it if it powers up or an OpFor moves within X amount of hexes to it?
In anycase, I think it was left out of this game because of pacing (at least in Multiplayer). Hiding a unit on a large map could bog a game down.
Also mechanics wise it might be a bit tricky or awkward. Since the map can be visually seen from a birds eye view, how do you hide a powered down mech, especially if the "fog of war" is lifted?
Besides, it takes one full turn to power up, so it would be almost impossible to effectively use it as an ambush mechanic. If anything, it could be seen as a handicap more than anything else.
I'm guessing there is just too many things working against the mechanic to have made it worth while.
No... and yes....
Depends on the era/timeline you're playing in.
Old school, like this game is set in, on tabletop, there is no seeing the enemy beyond you're line of sight. You either see them, or you don't. It depends on line of sight. Manual shut down is a thing, yes, but again... no point. If they can't see you, they can't detect you. If they can see you and you're shut down, you might as well punch out because you're dead.
On Megamek, it's easy... you set double-blind and you don't see the opponent until you have line of sight or, if you have an active probe, when they're within range.
On table top, it depends on how much work your GM is willing to do. We used to take turns GMing and our group had three tables at the game shop. One for each force and one for the guys who could see each other. Until you saw an opponent, you were at your own table. When you saw each other, you'd move to the common table.
It took a lot of work, but was very successful in creating that, "Oh crap!" moment when you round a corner with your cicada and run face first into an orion or something equally scary.
On the other hand, I'm given to understand a lot of table top players use one table... in which case, you see where your opponent is regardless of whether your mech has line of sight. I don't like that because it makes metagaming that much easier. However, it reduces space needs and reduces gamemaster effort required.
As such, I recommend playing with MegaMek or here.... Here is a more visceral feel while MegaMek is more true to tabletop and will allow more than lance on lance. I prefer here... but that's me.
Depends on the era/timeline you're playing in.
Old school, like this game is set in, on tabletop, there is no seeing the enemy beyond you're line of sight. You either see them, or you don't. It depends on line of sight. Manual shut down is a thing, yes, but again... no point. If they can't see you, they can't detect you. If they can see you and you're shut down, you might as well punch out because you're dead.
On Megamek, it's easy... you set double-blind and you don't see the opponent until you have line of sight or, if you have an active probe, when they're within range.
On table top, it depends on how much work your GM is willing to do. We used to take turns GMing and our group had three tables at the game shop. One for each force and one for the guys who could see each other. Until you saw an opponent, you were at your own table. When you saw each other, you'd move to the common table.
It took a lot of work, but was very successful in creating that, "Oh crap!" moment when you round a corner with your cicada and run face first into an orion or something equally scary.
On the other hand, I'm given to understand a lot of table top players use one table... in which case, you see where your opponent is regardless of whether your mech has line of sight. I don't like that because it makes metagaming that much easier. However, it reduces space needs and reduces gamemaster effort required.
As such, I recommend playing with MegaMek or here.... Here is a more visceral feel while MegaMek is more true to tabletop and will allow more than lance on lance. I prefer here... but that's me.
There are advanced Battetech rules that allow you to hide enemy mechs you can`t see and you only notice them as blips much like in the game. You can also shut down a mech voluntarily to hide it or override an overheat shutdown with the very dangerous risk of blowing up your mech, etc, etc. You can even fall, be prone and, if able, try to fight back using any guns still available on your mec.
Most of what we see here are the very basic boardgame mechanic rules (although DFA is an advanced rule). Maybe they will add advance capabilities in an expansion, (yes, i said expansion not DLC).
Most of what we see here are the very basic boardgame mechanic rules (although DFA is an advanced rule). Maybe they will add advance capabilities in an expansion, (yes, i said expansion not DLC).
DFA is even in the starter box rules, so I would not consider it an advanced rule. We've lost a fare bit of distinction between different types of melee attacks in the videogame that were all in the core rules (charging, punching, kicking, DFA, using melee weapons), but I understand why, things like this can get very fiddly in videogames, where in tabletop it's enough to just say "I punch your mech" and roll the dice.
Is the distiction between expansion and DLC relevant to this topic...? :S
Hmm.. I'm unsure which Mech this Lady might be.. PNT-9R, VND-1R, GHR-5N, HGN-733P (Level 1 Tech only of course
)Reg. original topic:
In TT you would have to use double blind rules, which meant three tables, three sets of the mechs and a GM to oversee the game.
Like double blind in MegaMek. Else in TT everyone sees everything from the start.
In this game I think an ECM/power down mechanic could be no radar blip before visual LOS and or even not showing the mech model on the map before closing in to a specific range even in the visual FOV.
Another ECM mechanic could be kind of 'permanent' evasive blips.
Buuuut, those 'niche' rules are essentially in use in this BattleTech game since there is FoW. Equivalent of "Double Blind" but with Sight and Radar distances. Within radar range right now, perfect information is not displayed only that one knows there is 'something' there until it moves closer. Since the Blind rule is basically in play, it should be no problem to implement mechanics for "Hidden Unit" rules, (powered down or designated stationary/camoflaged units that ambush) and probably reduced radar signature by something like EWE (but LOS not affected).
It is now. It never used to be. I guess I have the advantage of being old enough to remember.
Total warfare has been out for nearly 12 years now, which also has DFA rules, and is considered to be the basic rules, so I think we're way past the point where we can speak of DFA not being part of the basic rules. Heck, I would not speak about rules that was changed 1 year ago in the present tense (I've been in the hobby for 20 years this year).
HBS held back the raven so they could figure out how ECM and electronic warfare fit into the game. I'm sure things like active/passive radar will at least pass through their minds while working on it.
Manual shutdown wouldn't be bad, if you could startup and still either shoot or move. Startup counting as movement for the turn would be the easier approach to implement, I suspect. But that also changes the advantage of overheating the enemy to make them shutdown. It definitely would make for some interesting missions if the AI had a few hidden mechs waiting to boot up.
Manual shutdown wouldn't be bad, if you could startup and still either shoot or move. Startup counting as movement for the turn would be the easier approach to implement, I suspect. But that also changes the advantage of overheating the enemy to make them shutdown. It definitely would make for some interesting missions if the AI had a few hidden mechs waiting to boot up.