Party affiliation

[Shadow86]

I'm having this problem playing with Argentina. I've promoted a 30000-men farmer POP to a clerk one and changed the voting rights from Suffrage to Wealth in order to "liberalize" the voting population. As a result, the polls indicate about 84% of them are liberal and only 16% are conservative. Now, this is quite different in the parties screen, which shows only 20% of the voting people are affiliated to the liberal party (Partido Unitario), whereas the conservatives (Partido Federal) present 80% affiliation.

How am I supposed to change that? Some people suggest converting more POPs to clerks, but I find the cost prohibitive (5,000 pounds for each conversion is a lot for early Argentina), especially if the remaining significant farmer/labourer POPs are 11,000 ones at most. Without Partido Unitario in power, there's basically no immigration, and the country is effectively stuck, with just 800,000-900,000 population.

 

[NeilJT]

From my own observations; sadly I think that the proportions when it comes to voting are related to the number of pops of each ideology;

i.e. if you have 5 pops in your nation -

50,000 liberal clerks,
10 conservative capitalists,
10 conservative clergy,
10 conservative officers,
10 conservative aristocrats,

Then the political screen, and any election, will show a 20% support for the liberals; despite the fact that over 99% of the voting population are liberal.

 

[noddysseus]

Over tax your pops, then keep holding elections till the Liberals get in power. It may take a few elections.

 

[unmerged(49082)]

Putting liberals to power in Argentina in much more difficult now in 1.04 than it used to be before. You no longer get hardcoded immigration before you become liberal and the cost of promoting 1k size pops to clerks is indeed prohibitive. Earlier you had two 50k size pops that could be converted to clerks before second election campaign which was enough to assure Partido Unitario wins. You have to overtax your poor pops at 100% so that they turn liberal when their cash reserves go down. Now 1k size pops get so long to starve that a lot of time passes before the dreamed liberal government. You can take a look at my sig.

 

[Shadow86]

I carried out a little experiment, and got the liberals to power in mid-1840. I followed the advice some of you gave me and exploited the poor people, taxing them at 100%. The measure was remarkably effective, and support for the liberals as well as liberalism as the popular ideology gradually increased as the farmers and labourers ran out of cash reserves. Everything was fine and dandy: Partido Unitario got the upper hand in early 1840 and easily won the elections in August 10th.

HOWEVER!

Now it's August 11th and the whole situation has reverted to 1836's! The liberals now comprise roughly the 15% of the population (just the clerks, I assume), and support for Partido Unitario was demolished back to 1%.

The new government reduced the taxes of the poor sector to 50% and I lowered it a bit further to 49.22% so that I have all three sectors being taxed for the same percentage. It seems that all the lower classes became conservative again once they started having money in their reserves again... If things stay as they are (and I get a feeling they will, since I played on for a few days and the situation didn't change much), Partido Federal will be re-elected in the next elections, rendering all my efforts useless.

 

[gosam]

Unfortunately that's how it works, you'll have to call for an election right after conservatives win, and raise taxes back again.

 

[Shadow86]

Then how am I supposed to keep them in power? The liberals are crucial if Argentina is to rise from the background of minor nations. Nine months (from the elections won by the conservatives to the next "forced" elections) taxing the poor at 100% might not be enough to sway most of the population back to liberalism (it took four years to have Partido Unitario elected in the first place).

Right now, the only solution I can think of is hurry up and research State & Government as soon as possible, so that I can select Establishment in the Populism vs. Establishment event, thus allowing the people to vote according to their ideologies. This way I can set voting rights to Wealth and dominate any future elections with the clerk's 84% liberal majority.

However, there's another problem. Ideological Thought is needed for State & Government. The set of pro-liberal events will fire during the liberal government, but will then be most likely nullified by the pro-conservative events when Partido Federal retakes power.

 

[unmerged(49082)]

One remark - 50% taxes ARE safe.

When you finally manage to put liberals to power immigration should start. During the four years to the next election population should rise enough for you to be abe to afford more clerk conversions. Also if you go high enough in bidding chain it may be possible that your pops will be able to buy all their needs off the WM so that their cash reserves stay low. Not much more you can do about that. It was a lot easier in 1.03.

 

[King]

Here is a tip one, do not finaince reforms properly. That will raise population CON and this will make them more likely to vote according to ideology rather than issue.

 

[Shadow86]

I only have one social reform active (Good Healthcare), so cutting its funding didn't help at all.

Anyway, I tried a few more things and finally got the Populism vs. Establishment event. I went with Establishment, of course, and switched the voting rights to Wealth. However, I didn't notice any changes: the voting population returned to 84%, but there was only 20% support for Partido Unitario (when it should be, I guess, a LOT closer to 84%). I smell a bug...

 

[OHgamer]

I only have one social reform active (Good Healthcare), so cutting its funding didn't help at all.

Anyway, I tried a few more things and finally got the Populism vs. Establishment event. I went with Establishment, of course, and switched the voting rights to Wealth. However, I didn't notice any changes: the voting population returned to 84%, but there was only 20% support for Partido Unitario (when it should be, I guess, a LOT closer to 84%). I smell a bug...

What are the political affiliations of the middle and upper classes? If your voting level is set at wealth, then what the political opinions of the lower classes happen to be do not affect elections, only those of middle and upper classes. So even if you look at the polls chart which gauges opinions for the entire population, it may not reflect accurately the voting preferences of those who have the vote. If most of those are conservative, then you are sunk trying to have a liberal party in power with wealth as your voting level.

 

[Shadow86]

What are the political affiliations of the middle and upper classes? If your voting level is set at wealth, then what the political opinions of the lower classes happen to be do not affect elections, only those of middle and upper classes. So even if you look at the polls chart which gauges opinions for the entire population, it may not reflect accurately the voting preferences of those who have the vote. If most of those are conservative, then you are sunk trying to have a liberal party in power with wealth as your voting level.

No, the Latest Polls graphic in the Politics screen shows the voting population's ideology. The one that shows the total inhabitants' preference is the graphic in the Population screen. That one shows 25% liberal and 75% conservative, but as you said, it's irrelevant because most of the conservatives are in the lower classes.

 

[unmerged(24586)]

Wealth! Just set your voting rights to wealth and its easy!

 

[Shadow86]

Wealth! Just set your voting rights to wealth and its easy!

Please read the entire page. I said I had set voting rights to Wealth in the first post...

 

[unmerged(8646)]

oh I say just go into the savefile and ban the conservative party (or put it in the sleep/slept part? I don't know what that does). Yay, problem solved!

 

[Shadow86]

oh I say just go into the savefile and ban the conservative party (or put it in the sleep/slept part? I don't know what that does). Yay, problem solved!

I don't want to cheat...

 

[unmerged(8646)]

it's not cheating, per se. It's editing a savefile. That's all. Yay, again, problem solved!

 

[Shadow86]

it's not cheating, per se. It's editing a savefile. That's all. Yay, again, problem solved!

Yes, it's cheating. Cheating is not only using cheat codes, but modifying the game to unbalance it to your advantage. I'm asking for "legal" advice here.

 

[unmerged(49082)]

From my own observations; sadly I think that the proportions when it comes to voting are related to the number of pops of each ideology;
(...)
Then the political screen, and any election, will show a 20% support for the liberals; despite the fact that over 99% of the voting population are liberal.

This is true. Latest polls can show a big support for liberals but it's the percentage in party screen that matters. And the problem with Argentina is that you have lots of small farmer pops that are conservative and start with the same reserves as big pops so it takes ages to use them up.

A tip for you is to keep universal suffrage and hold one election after another while starving your population. Liberals will win eventually. Or alternatively with wealth voting rights you can demote all clergy and starve aristocrats. When they devolve you will have only 2 officer pops so you need to promote 3 clerks to assure a victory every time. It's just as easy. Either way it shouldn't take more than a few years to assue liberals stay in power.

 

[unmerged(54902)]

Playing as Argentina, and trying to get the Unitario into power, I had set the reforms to Wealth, and even after converting that big pop into clerks, I only had 10% support for the Unitario. Then I turned a clergyman into a farmer. Support for the Unitario increases. I continued, and eventually the majority were in support of Unitario... which means that under Wealth, clergy (I don't think they were before) can vote. But if you want the Unitario as Argentina, get rid of the priests. It worked for me.