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This is an extended version of a proposal originally made by @Pilbur in @Nebula21399 's discussion on a 24 hours clock in Imperator as in HoI games.
We brainstormed for the benefits of implementing this.

The idea:

Currently 1 tick in I:R is 1 Day. Change this to either:
  • 4 ticks per day (Morning – Midday – Evening – Night)
  • 5 ticks per day (Morning – Noon – Afternoon – Evening – Night)
  • 6 ticks per day (Dawn – Morning – Midday – Evening – Dusk – Night)
Adjust most times (pop growth, character age, truces etc.) accordingly, except:
  • duration of character schemes
  • Unit movement speed
These two should stay the same in real time (but 4 to 6 times faster in-game time).

This would allow implementing a downtime phase in battles (during the night tick).


Benefits:

I. Game length

It would have the same effect as extending the end date to
  • AUC 1558 (AD 805) if 4 t/d
  • AUC 1835 (AD 1082) if 5 t/d
  • AUC 2112 (AD 1359) if 6 t/d
but without the disadvantages! (Excessive number of pops and characters AND being long after the end of the Roman Empire.)

The success of @Zapflod 's Later end-date idea (3 place, W4), proves that people want to play the game longer. Our proposal would allow that without the need to address Christianity etc.


II. Characters and Immersion

Currently default office terms are 5 years in all republics. This is ahistorical (Rome, Carthage and Greek city-states had 1-year terms) but necessary because schemes take 365 or 730 ticks.

If ticks become parts of the day instead of days, these schemes would take a few months allowing a historical 1 year term.

If the 6-parts-version gets implemented, the 1-year term would even become longer (real-time) than the current 5 year term!

If the Interregnum mechanic suggestion by @PereLachaise also gets voted up, it could use the historical 5 days (20, 25 or 30 ticks in-game time in our proposal)

The lifetimes of characters would be extended 4 to 6 times (real-time). This would give players more time to interact with them and make character management more important.

Characters will be around much longer. But micromanagement would be reduced slightly because most appointments (governors, offices, generals etc.) would be less common (real time).

Certain events and schemes could have more options due to day phases. For example, assassinating a ruler at night would be easier, but doing it in daylight would have a greater impact on their country.

Implementing this would enable @dedd 's proposal of a night/day cycle for Imperator (F, W1). It was criticized and rejected because it makes no sense currently (1 tick per day) Arguably, it would become necessary if this proposal is implemented.

Many people stated that I:R has the most beautiful map among paradox games, even after CK3 released. The visual day and night cycle would enhance this.


III. Troop movement speed

Currently, troop movement speed is too fast. @ABadlyDrawnCoke made a proposal to adress this (Week 1) but it failed to get many votes.

@Chlodio did a good calculation proving this:
I did some measuring and it seems to be the case. Naturally forced march and road increase the speed both by 50%, which would bring the maximum speed to 10 km per day when forced marching on road. This is very slow; according to orbis, the Roman armies were able to walk 30 km on roads and 60 km kilometers while marching, and from other sources, it seems that it was possible to travel 20 km outside of roads.

But as with terms of office, the slow speed is necessary because of daily ticks, otherwise the players wouldn’t be able to react and reinforce battles fast enough.

Changing ticks to parts of the day would allow realistic movement times. Battles would take the same amount of IRL time to resolve, but it would be much shorter in game-time.


IV. Changes to battles.

Currently, battles are very siplified.
  • Cohorts face the same opponent until one is destroyed
  • Opposing cohorts (ships) become random overtime due to shifts (after previous ones were destroyed).
  • newly arrived general instantly changes formation (DOG exploit)
  • Meta for winning battles (DOG exploit) requires too much micro. (Tedious).
  • battles take many days (hurts immersion)
As a result, a battle is currently won by piling up reinforcements led by best generals in the 2nd. wave.

If the days are subdivided into multiple phases (ticks), the night phase would become a downtime:
  • no ordinary combat during the night (exceptions due to tradition, commander traits, unit types etc.)
  • Units restore morale depending on supply.
  • Both sides use this phase to plan for the next day (changing formation, rotating forces etc.)
  • One or both sides could choose to retreat. (if morale is low)
example I: one side has 50 cohorts after some reinforcements arrived last evening. Next day, they put the new cohorts in the front, replacing the battered ones.

example II: both sides try out new formations. This would be a dynamic rock-paper-scissor game (depending on available formations), with good generals (high martial) having better chance to pick the better formation for the given circumstances (troop composition, terrain etc.).


The leader with the highest martial stat would still be in charge, but the change of command would occur during the night phase. e.g. if an army led by a better general arrives in the morning, it would still have to fight in the formation chosen by the old general for the remaining daylight ticks.

Retreat could be initiated during the night phase (same as now). If an army breaks during the morning or noon phase, the winners would pursuit them for the rest of the day inflicting massive casualties.


Combat during the night phase would be the exception, but possible. (e.g. Battle of the Teutoburg Forest)

It could require some techs (burning arrows?), traditions (barbarians would benefit most). Perhaps a Night fighter trait for generals and admirals?

Only cohorts or ships that didn’t fight during the day phases would be able to fight at night.

They could cause reduced damage and casualties (low visibility) but high morale damage (for both sides) (no sleep)

Optional: make only light infantry eligible for night attacks. This would give them a useful niche (currently there’s almost no reason to build them if better units are available, as discussed here)


This would make combat both more variable and realistic.

EDIT 2: more ideas in the comments below.

If you liked this idea, please vote Like, Agree or Love.

EDIT: please be aware that Helpful is effectively a vote against this suggestion.
 
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Wagonlitz

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Paghalay

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I actually really like the proposal. It would allow for a lot of interesting feature ideas I think that could then further make Imperator it's own distinguished thing that's experimenting with new systems and ideas.
 
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tribunus_plebis

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This is a tremendous idea in its magnitude and scope and it makes sense in a lot of ways. My respects for the brainstorming crew that came out with this.
However, I'm not really sure if that is the game I'd like to play in a "Civilization Builder" project as I:R, therefore I vote it as "helpful" since there's no "abstain" option. :rolleyes:

I think this proposal would work really well in CK3 as a character driven game, which as of now is barely an arcade version of CK2.
 
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PereLachaise

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I totally agree with your proposal ! The idea of dawn/mid-day/night mechanic can give more historical aspect to the game, like the fact that the auspicia were taken early in the morning. Same with the combat mechanic ! Good job !
 
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htimsnivek

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You have my vote. With time of day and seasons you could add strategic layers where generals need to find a province with good supply to spend the winter or eat through all of their supply train. Keeping characters around longer and also reducing micro-management would allow players to get to know the big characters in their nation.

Also props on the signature call for votes. It feels a bit like a senator campaigning for their law.

(edited for typos)
 
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However, I'm not really sure if that is the game I'd like to play in a "Civilization Builder" project as I:R, therefore I vote it as "helpful" since there's no "abstain" option.
The main goal is improving combat.

But the parts of the day could have some effect on civ building.

Here are some quickly gathered ideas.
  • City buildings could produce in different phases (market in the morning, forum in the afternoon etc.), this would encourage building diverse cities.
  • Same for Deities? Sol, Helios, Ra: Noon. Venus, Aphrodite: Morning. Lunar Goddesses: Night etc. Effect: balanced Pantheon is better.
  • Constructing inns at trade routes prevents robberies at night.
  • Some tradegoods could make the night tick generate commerce income and research (oil for lamps, wax (IG honey? maybe.) for candles).
 
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Bovrick

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I like the rationalisation of the timeline (movement speed, battle durations, political office durations) for sure, this is a good solution. The extension of every year opening up the relevance seasonality in a time period of low technology in handling it is another nice advantage. My favourite part is definitely the extension of time with each character, giving a lot more time to make each of them feel impactful.

Some of the other ideas, such as time-of-day dependant factors, beyond introducing natural battle phases (great too!), feels like adding a lot more complexity that will never really be relevant to a player. Seasonality works because theres an extended period of time where the changes will influence your decisions; having something cycle every 4-6 ticks on building omen effects feels like something that will never matter and is fine being abstracted away.

The thing holding me back from full approval is that I see this as too fundamental a change right now. It has implications for pretty much every single part of the game. This may be something better suited for an IR2, which hopefully we get to one day.
 
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Now don't get me wrong i like this change and voted for it but 2 issues i could see is.

1 : Preformance is really bad on low end computers late game as is, so if you extend the game 4-6 times then the lategame could become really frustrating. Even without getting more pops/characters it can a struggle to get through the last few decades as is which would be more annoying by lasting 4-6 times longer

2 : I'd personally like more minor/character events then since it would just feel like i'd wait 4-6 times longer for truces to run out if i don't get more things to do.

But all in all really groundbreaking idea it would allow for seasonal effects and whatnot without feeling like they would last too short.
 
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htimsnivek

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[Performance] is really bad on low end computers late game as is, so if you extend the game 4-6 times then the lategame could become really frustrating.
I think reducing the huge armies later in the game would be the best way to improve late game performance. If you required a character to lead each army so you had fewer armies with less pathfinding calculations that could help. I'd love to have an army be able to slowly carpet siege around them just like a fort currently does. Having to manage lots of small armies carpet sieging isn't entertaining.

There would need to be a setting to disable any graphical night cycle for lower performance computers. Otherwise this sounds like simply changing what a "tick" represents and not something that would impact game performance significantly.
 
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I think reducing the huge armies later in the game would be the best way to improve late game performance. If you required a character to lead each army so you had fewer armies with less pathfinding calculations that could help. I'd love to have an army be able to slowly carpet siege around them just like a fort currently does. Having to manage lots of small armies carpet sieging isn't entertaining.

There would need to be a setting to disable any graphical night cycle for lower performance computers. Otherwise this sounds like simply changing what a "tick" represents and not something that would impact game performance significantly.
While having things like armies automatically sieging and such (that'd be extrmely useful) then it's not everything that could be done.
Some kind of diseaese or othr way sot limit pop growth/kill off pops at times really helps too. I've at times changed pop capacity to 1 for all territories (can be done in defines) and then run a few years. Ones reduced my Roman Empire from around 150k pops to around 50k pops, i.e. lost around 66% of all pops. That really sped the game back up.
 
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Greece stronk

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I had proposed a similar idea in the past, but much less detailed (essentially: "Increase ticks and rebalance as it fixes movement and battle length, as well as character immersion and game length simultaneously."). Funnily enough, you were the only single user that upvoted it, but people seem to like the suggestion when it's actually fleshed out like that.
Anyway, thank you for putting in the work and making this detailed suggestion, I think it's generally great, although the more complicated battles could add a lot of unwelcome micromanagement if not implemented correctly.
I upvoted it and hope the developers will consider implementing something along these lines.
 
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htimsnivek

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Some kind of disease or other way [to] limit pop growth/kill off pops at times really helps too.
Imperator: Rome - Reapers Due coming in 1.8!

The Antonine Plague started during the siege of Seleucia in Mesopotamia and spread all the way to Gaul. It killed as much as one third of the population in some areas. I love the resourcefulness to create your own plague using defines. Maybe disease can be added as a mid or late game crisis. Having some speed bumps on the way to world domination just adds to the sense of accomplishment.

Seeing prominent characters dying from the plague would add some "fun" in the Dwarf Fortress sense. It would need the time tick change to make you care about them though. I love that this time tick proposal already has more votes than last weeks winner.
 
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The thing holding me back from full approval is that I see this as too fundamental a change right now. It has implications for pretty much every single part of the game. This may be something better suited for an IR2, which hopefully we get to one day.
I. We think it would be less fundamental then some of the already implemented things (e.g. replacing mana and static POPs with PI and dynaimic development) and many proposed ones (technology, trade, pops link)

II. I:R has very low player numbers. some big changes are neccessary to revamp the game.

1 : Preformance is really bad on low end computers late game as is, so if you extend the game 4-6 times then the lategame could become really frustrating. Even without getting more pops/characters it can a struggle to get through the last few decades as is which would be more annoying by lasting 4-6 times longer
The pop growth rate could be lowered even more than needed for an 1:1 adjustment.

currently POPs grow too fast anyway, it needs to be adressed as well.

I had proposed a similar idea in the past, but much less detailed (essentially: "Increase ticks and rebalance as it fixes movement and battle length, as well as character immersion and game length simultaneously."). Funnily enough, you were the only single user that upvoted it, but people seem to like the suggestion when it's actually fleshed out like that.
This idea has been proposed and discussed multiple times (and by multiple people). Unfortunately, the devs have never commented on it.
 
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Nak'Arosh

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@Ketchup & friends
You don't need to change the tick per day.

My idea about that would be like a Timezone that could be 6 or more and each zone is a time of the day, like : Sunset, Midday/noon , sunset | dusk, midnight and dawn. It could be applied visually too, changing the luminosity gradually of the region according its timezone.

As the time is running this timezone is moving thought the map, representing the day passing, you don't need to change on the day(month or year) running calculator. As one region is day, on the next day this need to be one of the time of night: dusk, midnight or dawn. If you think about winter, summer, autumn and spring you just need to adjust he range of night or day, if its winter the night would get like 4 zone of 6 making the night more long, if its summer the day get 4 zone of 6 making the day more long.

View attachment 674903

If you think as function wouldn't be hard to implement, each zone has his function according its time of the day affecting that area.Its just like the sun and the moon passing through the map. But I know that implement this has an effect in many core functions of the game, like soldier/ship movement. But would be awesome seeing your soldier arriving on the enemy territory in the midnight or dawn. This could affect the soldier morality or the enemy morality.


I know that talking is easy doing is hard.
 
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Wagonlitz

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@Ketchup & friends
You don't need to change the tick per day.

My idea about that would be like a Timezone that could be 6 or more and each zone is a time of the day, like : Sunset, Midday/noon , sunset | dusk, midnight and dawn. It could be applied visually too, changing the luminosity gradually of the region according its timezone.

As the time is running this timezone is moving thought the map, representing the day passing, you don't need to change on the day(month or year) running calculator. As one region is day, on the next day this need to be one of the time of night: dusk, midnight or dawn. If you think about winter, summer, autumn and spring you just need to adjust he range of night or day, if its winter the night would get like 4 zone of 6 making the night more long, if its summer the day get 4 zone of 6 making the day more long.

View attachment 674903

If you think as function wouldn't be hard to implement, each zone has his function according its time of the day affecting that area.Its just like the sun and the moon passing through the map. But I know that implement this has an effect in many core functions of the game, like soldier/ship movement. But would be awesome seeing your soldier arriving on the enemy territory in the midnight or dawn. This could affect the soldier morality or the enemy morality.


I know that talking is easy doing is hard.
Unless you mean having entire days next night, etc, then your idea won't work as itd just be cosmetic and have no effect in the game itself.

The reason for more ticks is to be able to have night influence battles, etc.
 

Nak'Arosh

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Unless you mean having entire days next night, etc, then your idea won't work as itd just be cosmetic and have no effect in the game itself.

The reason for more ticks is to be able to have night influence battles, etc.

I think you don't understand, if you look to the zone they have to be one of the 3 times of night or day. If a event occurs on timezone of day, this will be explicit on the message log like:

"Consul X on the dawn have demand a army to reach gauls"
"Your son born on midnight of this day"

For a military aspect, if you have a army on a timezone where its on day and after 3 day moving through the map to find a opponent you gonna reach them on the night, and by that this would affect the battle. Because the timezone is receiving a night constant on the function affecting all area that is include: citys.... and everyone there.
So on this timezone every battle would be on the night.