Partisans group spawn

[Secret Master]

PI used a generic code for UR production and placement and seems to have placed no limit on the number of times or amount of spawns a conquered nation can support. Hopefully they will take a look at this and make some corrections in a future patch.

In principle, I agree that since URs don't consume manpower, it's silly that the French people can rise up in revolt twice a year without any further consequences (where are they getting the warm bodies, anyway?). I also agree that it is too easy to supply an insurgency. Even with no naval bases in range, the US can spam URs in Europe. How are they getting the supplies there?

That being said, if I thought that uprisings were a bigger threat, then I'd be more worried about them. In practice, they are just a cheap way to gain a tiny bit of experience for the troops left behind in occupied territories. Uprisings hurt the AI more than humans because of how theater AI overreacts (Theater AI basically says, "ZOMG! Send ALL the Panzers!").

To put it in perspective, I might get 6 or more uprisings in Poland per game, but none of them achieve the longevity of even the defeated Warsaw Ghetto uprising. It's quantity over quality in 99% of cases. Human players are wise enough to hold back a mass uprising until they can coordinate with something (like Overlord) to make the uprisings worthwhile, but the AI just kind of spams them just enough to force you to garrison the rear a little better.

That being said, if I could change anything, I'd make it more expensive to set up URs in far away countries. If you don't have a naval base in range, you pay double or triple the cost. This might tone down US support for insurgencies in Axis countries while not making it impossible (it might also encourage the US to invest in URs in China instead of Europe).

 

[Dragnar]

That being said, if I could change anything, I'd make it more expensive to set up URs in far away countries. If you don't have a naval base in range, you pay double or triple the cost. This might tone down US support for insurgencies in Axis countries while not making it impossible (it might also encourage the US to invest in URs in China instead of Europe).

That would be a great change.
It's not a problem that the U.S. has enough IC to arm tens of thousands of potential partisans, it's just wierd that they get to teleport that material into Fortress Europe for no cost.
Double the cost, if you don't border the country you're putting the UR in (so Russia gets to fund eastern european partisans for cheap, everyone else pays extra).
Then double the cost again, if your capital is not on the same continent than the country you're putting the UR in (so while England can still support Dutch and French partisans for a moderate doubling, the U.S. pays 4 times the cost for every UR in Europe).

 

[smitbr]

That being said, if I could change anything, I'd make it more expensive to set up URs in far away countries. If you don't have a naval base in range, you pay double or triple the cost. This might tone down US support for insurgencies in Axis countries while not making it impossible (it might also encourage the US to invest in URs in China instead of Europe).

They are way too cheap and the AI spams them way too much. Just finished a Nat China game. Japan spawned 20 or so militias twice a year in Manchuko and Korea every year. With the AI unable to handle it, it was the biggest headache and time waster... Plus with hard difficulty and Jap CAGS supporting them I had to have a div of garrisons and 2 divs of cavalry working full time. It just gets too much!

Need to be able to spend espionage points on shutting down URs. Counter-espionage at its finest

 

[Beagá]

Partisans and U. resistance is currently FUBAR simply because all those partisans behind totally screw the german AI, making playing as SU ridiculously easy, since they will take half the army from the front line to deal with the threat.

It needs to be adressed in the next patch. Will an increase in the cost of UR help deal with the issue, meanwhile?

 

[FabiusBile]

Partisans and U. resistance is currently FUBAR simply because all those partisans behind totally screw the german AI, making playing as SU ridiculously easy, since they will take half the army from the front line to deal with the threat.

It needs to be adressed in the next patch. Will an increase in the cost of UR help deal with the issue, meanwhile?

I have to agree with this - Germany pulled troops from active combat 1000 of miles back just in order to kill some militia units. For some reason they also rarely engage, they wait like 1 Month so that they can attack the one militia unit with like 3 infantry Brigades and 1 tank brigade. This totally cripples the german AI.

 

[Meglok]

Yep, the AI overreacts horribly to an uprising, just as it overreacts to Norway, to a 2 division landing in Athens, etc. In the case of UR cells, I think we all agree that magically teleporting in troops with no regard for manpower, support, and at little cost is detracting from the game and takes the AI to fubar land. Another case of someone's "good" idea implemented and causing unintended consequences.

I really miss the optional rules of board games. UR's would surely be relegated to the "we never use that one" pile or house ruled to make some sense. A player can go into the common/buildings.txt file and change the cost, practical, and time to produce of UR bases. Fairly sure doing so will change your checksum. And unfortunately, it looks like the call for building UR bases comes from the baseline production/AI script and uses calculations that are in hidden files. So you might want to be careful of your own unintended consequences.

 

[Dragnar]

That's not a problem with partisans, but with the military AI, though. An actual enemy division far behind german lines often leads to the same confusion.
The military AI works reasonably well on a restricted theatre, but can't handle multiple distinct threats on the same one. It doesn't rearrange theatres so that occupied backline territories aren't in the same theatre as the frontline and then overreacts.

 

[Beagá]

We all know this. The question is how to fix it. And the best one IMO is to greatly decrease partisan spawning. Make the AI passive towards "small" fronts and suddenly it will also ignore "small" invasions that will soon become huge ones if it doesn´t close the gap. The reason why the AI sends so many troops it´s because if a few US divisions land in a port (which is the same number a partisan brings) the AI knows that it will soon become a deluge and thus it has to deal with it quickly and with great numbers. Obviously that doesn´t happen if three partisans appear in an inner province, but it reacts to the threat the same way, thus resulting in the stupid movements of entire corps to deal with a silly threat.

So just remove or decrease partisan spawn a LOT.

 

[Ricox]

Meglok, it is true that US might get so much IC that it might unbalance the game, but that's quite historical. Paradox already seems to have put some work into balancing US by making it way weaker than it historically was, bringing it down even more would just unbalance the game even more than mass US IC does it.

 

[Holy.Death]

If you want your troops to attack in multiple directions then simply go down a level or two - you have enough levels HQ to set as many units to whatever threat you want them to go. The AI handles the uprising just fine, provieded it has been given the right orders on correct HQ level. It also gives more sense to keeping the Reserve Army and "peace maker" corps in the occupied countries. This coupled with changes to production in TFH make this approach a viable one.

 

[Sovetskysoyuz]

If you want your troops to attack in multiple directions then simply go down a level or two - you have enough levels HQ to set as many units to whatever threat you want them to go. The AI handles the uprising just fine, provieded it has been given the right orders on correct HQ level. It also gives more sense to keeping the Reserve Army and "peace maker" corps in the occupied countries. This coupled with changes to production in TFH make this approach a viable one.

The issue is that AI-controlled countries can't be taught to do the same thing.

 

[NERFGEN]

I hope it's simply possible to tell the AI not to spawn UR cells in AI controlled countries.

 

[l3ol3o]

I have to agree with this - Germany pulled troops from active combat 1000 of miles back just in order to kill some militia units. For some reason they also rarely engage, they wait like 1 Month so that they can attack the one militia unit with like 3 infantry Brigades and 1 tank brigade. This totally cripples the german AI.

This. I've disabled Partisans because of this. I use the AI for combat and partisans spawning can literally be devastating. Not only does the AI move way too many troops to deal with the threat, they don't even deal with the threat! The AI just surrounds the enemy and does nothing half the time. Even on Blitzing stance they don't attack.

The way the AI needs to deal with partisans needs to be changed.

 

[smitbr]

Similarly I've found that even with overwhelming odds AI controlled armies are not attacking.

The army is surrounding a few militia on blitzkrieg? Better wait till the panzers arrive... Don't want to risk taking a bullet to the knee

 

[Nicolas I]

Originally Posted by FabiusBile. I have to agree with this - Germany pulled troops from active combat 1000 of miles back just in order to kill some militia units. For some reason they also rarely engage, they wait like 1 Month so that they can attack the one militia unit with like 3 infantry Brigades and 1 tank brigade. This totally cripples the german AI.

This. I've disabled Partisans because of this. I use the AI for combat and partisans spawning can literally be devastating. Not only does the AI move way too many troops to deal with the threat, they don't even deal with the threat! The AI just surrounds the enemy and does nothing half the time. Even on Blitzing stance they don't attack. The way the AI needs to deal with partisans needs to be changed.

The way to deal with that problem was stated over and over. Create a separate theater for the rear of your front and assign only garnisons with MPs and a few units to fight partisans like Militia and Cavalry. That way the AI can focus on fighting partisans without pulling troops from the frontline and without using too many units (just what you gave).

I've disabled Partisans

Why the Germans didn't tought about simply doing that ? Maybe because they had no computers...

 

[Lord Solar]

In principle, I agree that since URs don't consume manpower, it's silly that the French people can rise up in revolt twice a year without any further consequences (where are they getting the warm bodies, anyway?).

From France, supposedly? I know what the occupation forces did in reality but I don't think they ever executed as many rebels that the country had to wait a few years until new ones were born and grown up, if only for practical reasons.

That way the AI can focus on fighting partisans without pulling troops from the frontline and without using too many units (just what you gave).

I think the problem is more that the AI does not use the troops even when it has enough (a single INF bde is enough) and that it itself cannot solve the problem.

 

[Lord Solar]

Sorry, double post, no coffee yet.

 

[Arieswolf]

Just found a JAP UR in SOV occupied FIN that was spawing MIL and then (I assume) giving it as an Ex. Force back to FIN. I was playing as GER.

 

[Gzav8]

Its 1941, US ran out of manpower so they are just spamming IC and Partisans everywhere. I've loaded as US to check it out, every single country occupied by the axis has at least 10 sleeping partisans cells. Ok I like how the partisans affects the game, but to be honest I am not having fun anymore spending 75% of my time suppressing them. Yes, I know, I have to leave some units behind but it is not that easy...

 

[smitbr]

Its 1941, US ran out of manpower so they are just spamming IC and Partisans everywhere. I've loaded as US to check it out, every single country occupied by the axis has at least 10 sleeping partisans cells. Ok I like how the partisans affects the game, but to be honest I am not having fun anymore spending 75% of my time suppressing them. Yes, I know, I have to leave some units behind but it is not that easy...

+ infinity. It's annoying and its taking unnecessarily high amounts of time away. You should be able to invest espionage points into shutting down URs