Partisans group spawn

[flossy]

I just had my first TFH game, the usual '36 German campaign, and right after I launched Barbarossa I had several partisan group spawns, 8 units in each, in Belgium, Netherlands,Denmark and in the Balkans. They all happened within weeks of each other. I'm all for a challenge but this seemed a little bit....much? :wacko: I mean, an underground army of thousands spawning from nowhere ?
The most annoying part is that they go on a rampage invading half of Europe within days!

 

[Communazi]

that's why you need garrisons and military police scattered around to dismantle the partisan cells

 

[flossy]

Well, yeah I'm used to the way partisans work, just not in these "mass attacks". Seemed a bit weird.

 

[desmo]

In my CGM w/ ARG, the Columbian insurgents (probably a bunch who are the precursors of FARC or Sendero Luminoso) spring up with such precision in timing of Allied forces attack in South America you'd swear the attacks are co-ordinated (Duh - same AI). I have a division out of Panama that roams Columbia, but the moment it gets assigned to leave the area - boom!

 

[delra]

Heheh, but you have to admit it's pretty awesome when you think about it.

 

[Secret Master]

Well, yeah I'm used to the way partisans work, just not in these "mass attacks". Seemed a bit weird.

It's because the AI now knows how to use the mass uprising function like players always could. Finally the mechanic is balanced between the AI and humans.

I tend to prefer just leaving troops behind to fight the partisans when they rise up in partisan suppression theaters. I don't find GAR/MPs are good enough at finding and kill the URs to justify their cost or their really low speed. I sometimes throw some MPs into MIL divisions (which at least cost fewer officers and are faster than GAR), but I don't suppression useful for finding the URs.

Note that I think suppression works better at reducing the partisan effect on supply, which is a whole other aspect of the game.

 

[delra]

So you're saying there's a partisan effect on supply? I thought that's an urban legend TBH. Can't really see it, I assume that's my failure - if you can prove me wrong with a screenshot, that'd be much appreciated.

 

[Nicolas I]

Just let the partisans rise without suppression and look at your supply.

Supply Throughput

There are several factors that limit the distribution of supplies:

Infrastructure: The supply throughput a province can funnel depends on its infrastructure (see below for details).

Supply Tax: Moving supplies costs a base tax of 0.1 supplies (decreased by Supply Transportation techs) per province moved through.

Port Size: For overseas supply sources, the size of the port (each level equals 4 supplies) limits the amount of supplies that can be convoyed.

Air Base Size: Each level can support 4 supply units. Thus, a level 10 airbase can supply 40 air wings maximum.

Partisan Activity: Partisans will disrupt your supply in any province with partisan activity, decreasing your supply throughput.


Supply Throughput can be improved through the following methods:

Supply Transportation research reduces the supply tax per province.

Laws can also affect supply throughput. Mixed Industry gives 5% bonus to throughput while Heavy Industry gives a 10% bonus to throughput.

Less draconian occupation policies will decrease partisan activity and improve supply throughput in occupied territory.

The Army Group HQ will improve logistics by 5% based on each skill level of its commander.

Building new infrastructure will increase the throughput of that province.

Building IC in a core province without IC will create a new supply source and possibly improve nearby supply distribution.

 

[Corelli]

I love the change as I feel it makes players actually leave more troops back to put down these partisans as opposed to every brigade being on the front line.

As Italy during the Ethiopian campaign the AI had at least 4 partisan troops rise up that I had to go kill along with a number of tries at getting a rebellion going in different provinces. It was a pleasure to see this change implemented and I look forward to, with some trepidation, building a decent sized garrison army.

Before TFH I did a mixture of 1 Gar + 2 MP, 1 MIL + 2MP along with some MIL/MP attached to behind the lines HQs to keep down the partisans. The MIL could slowly kill the partisan units but now I may need to mix in some CAV brigades as I notice the partisans moving around a lot sooner than before.

 

[NERFGEN]

For suppression I like the use of Gar+mp on fixed locations. for actual partisans killing a brigade of Larm or two (someone will shout supplie issue but I perfer killing them before they cut my eastern front in half). It's fast as hell and kicks real good.

 

[Ricox]

I just had my first TFH game, the usual '36 German campaign, and right after I launched Barbarossa I had several partisan group spawns, 8 units in each, in Belgium, Netherlands,Denmark and in the Balkans. They all happened within weeks of each other. I'm all for a challenge but this seemed a little bit....much? :wacko: I mean, an underground army of thousands spawning from nowhere ?
The most annoying part is that they go on a rampage invading half of Europe within days!

I think that's a very big improvement! I was very happily surprised that the resistance of occupied countries was well represented now, otherwise you could just set all occupied nations to collaboration and pretty much leave no garrisons in them other than in ports for protecting against invasions from the sea, now you actually have to drain some troops off your plans of some major offensive and have them boringly sit around a high-risk area for any uprisings.

Although the annoying part is when the partisans start running into mainland Germany and forget the whole principle of liberating their own country... I almost lost the whole Ruhr area to Dutch partisans, they completely forgot about liberating their own land. :3

 

[NERFGEN]

Imho there is a limit to partisan activity. you can't have an entire army in garrison duty on the eastern front as Germany... More or less...

Partisans were indeed very active in WW2; in some places more than others.

But they either acted underground (in which case they did not correspond to a 'militia brigade' and were countered by police (and yes 'punitive') action. If they organised into open revolt as happened a couple of times only (I'm talking about major action here, like Warsaw uprising or the French southern uprising) then they could be represented by the partisan brigade (and generally be crushed fast and easy by troops BEFORE they actually do some real liberating)

What I'd love to see is a twofold partisan unit.

1) The underground cell (the one that does damage to supply lines and telephone poles etc) which remains off-map as it is now.

this is countered by a police cell which is deployed in a similar manner by the occupying country by placing a cell on a province.

2) The major uprising (which could be based in provinces outside the range of a police cell and depend on the NU or surrender progress of the occupying country) This spawns a set of Mil brigades depending on how much time the underground cell has had to gather such people based on the manpower of said province. (please no more 1000 men in the middle of frigging Siberia in winter)

 

[Lord Solar]

Imho there is a limit to partisan activity. you can't have an entire army in garrison duty on the eastern front as Germany... More or less...

Hmm. I actually have a couple of army groups there (although they also act as border guards).

 

[NERFGEN]

I'm talking about units that are exclusively dedicated to antipartisan duty.

 

[porkmeister26]

I have found ground attack fixes the partisans at the providence they are in and can't move around until I get troops there, I use an air group I have moved out of combat or a new group not up to speed yet.

 

[Hootieleece]

IRL Germany often had to pull combat troops out of line and conduct major offensives against Partisans in Yugoslavia and in Russia.

Actually this makes the German Elite unit useful.Eventhough using its to kill "Rebels" is a waste of some of your most powerful units.

I never thought about using Air to fix the partisans in place.(They move way faster than regular units)

 

[Secret Master]

In the past, people have used CAV for crushing partisans when they actually rise up. It's faster than INF, MIL, or GAR, but it uses no fuel.

 

[Meglok]

In the past, people have used CAV for crushing partisans when they actually rise up. It's faster than INF, MIL, or GAR, but it uses no fuel.

2 brigades of CAV is generally more than enough to play whack-a-mole with partisans. Cheap, fast, no tech upgrades, and no fuel use. Just make sure you don't build them as reserves. Did that once with Japan and was wondering why Chinese partisans were manhandling them during a brief peace lull. Definite /facepalm moment.

What I am having trouble with is the massive spawn of literally thousands of partisans across multiple hexes in countries that never ever had that many partisans. There was a definite limit to the amount of active partisans in many occupied countries, very rarely did they stage "uprising", and never did so more than once. Unfortunately, the mechanics are a "one size fits all" code that allow Denmark for example to have a 6 province uprising.

 

[Secret Master]

They are getting foreign support on top of their GiE URs.

The USA loves building URs in Europe. And they have the IC to arm hordes of partisans. I get 2 uprisings a year in Poland and France. I also get some in occupied Russia if Barbarossa goes on too long.

That foreign support is key. US IC, especially once they have enough militia practical (URs use militia practical, so they get cheaper over time), can easily seed several provinces, and they can spread like a cancer without too much effort.

But the AI doesn't coordinate them well with invasions and whatnot, making it less threatening.

 

[Meglok]

They are getting foreign support on top of their GiE URs.

The USA loves building URs in Europe. And they have the IC to arm hordes of partisans. I get 2 uprisings a year in Poland and France. I also get some in occupied Russia if Barbarossa goes on too long.

That foreign support is key. US IC, especially once they have enough militia practical (URs use militia practical, so they get cheaper over time), can easily seed several provinces, and they can spread like a cancer without too much effort.

But the AI doesn't coordinate them well with invasions and whatnot, making it less threatening.

All to aware of who is behind the UR spam, and another indicator that the US just might be producing a "slightly" game unbalancing amount of IC now. My point is that these multitudes of uprisings are very ahistorical in most cases. Russia is a special case. Just about ever war game I have ever played have special rules to take into account Russian partisans and the amount of care and feeding the Soviets poured into their support. But 2 uprising a year in Belguim, Holland, Poland, France, and/or other minor western nations is ridiculous. The inherent penalty that a conquering or occupying country receives in supply throughput takes into account normal partisan activities. Uprisings were and should be a special case or event.

You can count on one hand the number of "uprisings" that happened in western countries - 2 in France, if you count the Normandy and sourthern France Marquis uprising as separate, the Polish Home Army, the Greek Resistance, the 3 cornered war in Yugoslavia, and I am having trouble coming up with any additional uprisings. And by uprising, I mean a home army actively putting militia in the field for longer then a weekend. The idea of Holland or Denmark putting thousands of home militia in the field behind the lines once or twice a year is, I repeat, ridiculous and ahistorical. PI used a generic code for UR production and placement and seems to have placed no limit on the number of times or amount of spawns a conquered nation can support. Hopefully they will take a look at this and make some corrections in a future patch.