Partisans for puppets

[unmerged(54240)]

In HoI2 the puppet country population was way too loyal (in fact 100% loyal) which is completely unrealistic. It would be great to see opposition and active revolt against the puppet regimes modeled in HoI3.

For example: In HoI2, Manchukuo has 100% loyal following by the population which was not the case historically. IRL Chinese and Korean guerilla forces were active throughout the war in the area (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Anti-Japanese_United_Army).
It's the same story if say Japan manages to puppet China: all the partisans that would normally be giving headache would simply seize to exist when some puppet government loyal to Japan suddenly appears. I can use this scenario with pretty much any country. So in my opinion a forcefully created puppets should have partisan level of say.. half of what total annexation would cause. I'm sure it's not something too hard to model.

Any thoughts or comments?

 

[zeekater]

It would be a good way to make puppets less powerful, have them start at large dissent, so partisans start popping up everywhere.
(if the concept of dissent is in )

 

[unmerged(56754)]

Yes puppets should get partisans. It makes no sense the public is happy with their Nazi puppet master, sure they would be happier then being directly occupied, but I can think of my resitances agains't 'puppet' nations that would have none in HOI2.

 

[unmerged(84607)]

If nothing else, it should be concievable that an AI Puppet, if it feels big enough (I'm looking at China and a German puppeted Russia) rejects its puppetmaster and declares itself free. In these cases it would keep the puppet regime (NS for the puppet Russia or Pat Autocrat for China) and just reject the puppeteer.

 

[Sovereign]

I agree that puppets should have dissent, but the probability of a puppet breaking away from it's overlord should only begin to become significant if the overlord has say... over 15 percent dissent itself. Of course having secret police techs or higher "investment in internal security" would reduce dissent all round, puppet, overlord, regular nation etc.

 

[Deus Eversor]

and i think that
release will get away your dissent
but you will need to keep your forces in a puppet in case they get a rebel sickness
(remember the '53 uprising in east germany... soviets had to interveen and 89 when gorbachov moved red army from politics and that started a chain reaction of "autumn of nations")
so
getting away your dissent will "force" player to release
and need to keep garrison in a puppet will "force" player to let it free

 

[I Killed Kenny]

ut if you are the US and you free Belgium? Should you have partisans?

 

[unmerged(54240)]

Great ideas people, keep 'em coming!

ut if you are the US and you free Belgium? Should you have partisans?

I have 3 solutions for that:
1. Assuming US is in the Allies and Belgian government in exile exists (presumably) in London, then Belgium will be released as an independent country and the government in exile will return to power once liberated.

2. Have the puppet government that is created by a democratic country (and thus being democratic itself) have minimum or no partisans at all.

3. Or simply have the democratic countries have no option to have puppets at all. Only liberation and peace deals allowed.

 

[Sovereign]

ut if you are the US and you free Belgium? Should you have partisans?

That's different from forced puppetry, releasing a nation isn't the same as invading it and forcing it to capitulate to you. Mind you if you annex it and then release it... you as the aggressor could cheat puppet penalties. Maybe if a nation 'remembers' who annexed it or something... hold a grudge so to speak.

 

[daemonofdecay]

That's different from forced puppetry, releasing a nation isn't the same as invading it and forcing it to capitulate to you. Mind you if you annex it and then release it... you as the aggressor could cheat puppet penalties. Maybe if a nation 'remembers' who annexed it or something... hold a grudge so to speak.

Well, there would also have to be considerations for the people in the nation that is freed and what they feel about 'independence'.

Germany releasing Belgium? The people arn't going to be too supportive of that government. But releasing the Ukraine? There was alot of support for such a move among the Ukrainians themselves, who weren't to happy with the Soviet Union.

So maybe some nations would have a tag or whatever that could dictate how well they might view "liberation" by a foriegn power. Nations that were composed of people who wanted independence (Croatia, Ukraine, Baltic States, etc.) would propably suffer from less partisan uprisings than those that have a populace who disliked the pupeteer moreso than whoever they were liberated from.

 

[Driggsd]

You are realy on to something here! As with aot of "created" nations there will be a number of diferent groups and people competing to be in power.