Partisans and Area Population

[Chief Savage Ma]

The effect that a garrison has on the partisan risk in a province should be scaled on the population of that province. In provinces with very little population (the Arctic Russian provinces, the Sahara, etc.) should be easily controlled with an understrength garrison based in a nearby province. On the other hand, a huge city like Paris, Berlin, or Warsaw should take a very large garrison to fully suppress. Also, the sizes of revolts should be based on the same factor. A revolt of Salekhard or Baffin Island would be much smaller than a revolt in Kiev or Copenhagen. In HoI2's system, a revolt in a desolate Tibetan backwater has the same strength as a general uprising in Hamburg. It makes no sense.

 

[unorthodoxt]

I would like La Résistance and Partizani to have more of an effective in the game. As well as other partisan movements and what not.

But if they are going to do it somewhat like EU3 where you can get massive rebel uprisings from time to time. It would be nice.

And would force belligerent invaders to tie up troops in the rear to make sure no uprising occurs.

And yes, I would chuckle when a division of rebels would rise up in Kiev as the same time a division of rebels in Central Africa.
:rofl:

 

[Amallric]

Good idea but if the Eu3 revolt engine is used, there shouldn't be any problems with that in HoI3.

 

[unmerged(10977)]

Yeah, using the EU3 variant of rebellions would be great. It would really force Japan and axis to delopy lots of forces in order to suppress partisans in for example China and the balkans.

 

[potski]

The effect that a garrison has on the partisan risk in a province should be scaled on the population of that province. In provinces with very little population (the Arctic Russian provinces, the Sahara, etc.) should be easily controlled with an understrength garrison based in a nearby province. On the other hand, a huge city like Paris, Berlin, or Warsaw should take a very large garrison to fully suppress. Also, the sizes of revolts should be based on the same factor. A revolt of Salekhard or Baffin Island would be much smaller than a revolt in Kiev or Copenhagen. In HoI2's system, a revolt in a desolate Tibetan backwater has the same strength as a general uprising in Hamburg. It makes no sense.

The weakness of the HOI2 engine was that a partisan uprising could only be represented as a full strength Div. Now you could see Partisan forces consisting of 1-4 Bde's. Perhaps the MP value in the revolting province, together with the Revolt% could influence how many Bde's.

 

[unmerged(127403)]

I would like La Résistance ... to have more of an effective in the game.

Why? I think that them messing up your TC as Germany is more than enough, apart from Yugoslavia what partisans really had an effect on the enemy apart from damaging TC?

 

[Meothar]

And maybe there won't be Swedish bombing raids against anti-German partisans in Poland or Russia

 

[Bullfrog]

Most partisan activity is modeled well in HoI2, though the logistical effects could certainly be made more extreme. Brigade or division sized units openly rebelling was very rare except in the former Yugoslavia. These large uprisings should probably be made into a more serious but less often occurance.

 

[unmerged(123225)]

I will repeat my requests here that I made in other threads:
-make partisans have a goal and a mission just like in EU3:IN
-Soviet partisans who rise up shouldn't be enemies to everyone including the Soviets. If they're loyal to the Soviet, they should be controlled by the Soviet player and whatever land they take should go to Soviet and not some rebel faction.
-Players should be able to encourage partisan uprising on their conquered provinces. Chinese Communists were able to control much of the rural land in Japanese occupied northern China through partisans.
-as this thread mentions, the level of partisans should depend on the manpower of the province.
-colonial countries shouldn't have a flat out 0 level

 

[unmerged(31881)]

i dunno. A division stretched out over a Finnish province faces different challenges than one situated in an urban region.

As long as partisans actually do show up and require effort to combat...

 

[Alex_brunius]

I Hope we se partisan divisions that are made up of "militia" brigades. And like you suggest the larger the city, the more of them there is. Hopefully even several Partisan divisions at the same time if we are talking about a major uprising in a Capital.

Here are a few other suggestions to improve partisans:
# Divisions that conists of only MP can be deployed directly to occupied territory and overseas (to reduce micromanagement).
# All divisions on anti partisan duty will automatically attack uprisnings in neighboring provinces and return after they have retaken them.
# Partisans belong to the original owner of the land, and can join forces as militia divisions if they break out.
# If left uncontrolled partisans chance keep increasing slowly. No enemy soldiers, more sense to revolt and take your land back, right?
# All brigades should have higher anti partisan values. In most cases normal divisions where used as garrisions or anti partisans. A soldier is always a soldier.

 

[unmerged(127403)]

Ok so i'm not saying that we should make HOI3 Viki2 but...

a lot of these surgestioons happen in Viki... If i'm attacking China for example and a province revolts they do not appear as rebels but as Chinese troops (although still as weak militias depending upon the size of pop... not that I want pop's in HOI3 )

Also in Viki, i belive that having 'rebels' in a province and/or the province being controled by them increases militancy of other pops, which increases revlot risk... so this could be HOIified (again no pops please )

 

[GuderianTA]

lets not forget the Warsaw uprising of 1944, Not to be confused with the Warsaw ghetto uprising. that was open rebellion that took 2 months to quell and killed 15000 Germans. up too 40000 thousand polish rebels took to the streets.

 

[mib]

HOI3 likely won't include any population info (aside from MP) because of the whole no genocide thing.

 

[unmerged(112350)]

Who speaks about genocide?
Its just a calculation of partisant activiti wchich should depend on nationality (like war traditions and former liberation moves - like poland fighting whole XIX century for independence), population density (more people for resistance) and terrain - more regular fighting in areas like mountains (Yugoslavia) and forests/swamps (Russia).
Its a dependance and nothing more. No one thinks about anything else. The game should be as realistic as possible - without braking 'some' rules.

 

[unmerged(40779)]

Why? I think that them messing up your TC as Germany is more than enough, apart from Yugoslavia what partisans really had an effect on the enemy apart from damaging TC?

Untrue, actually. Poland, Belorussia, parts of Ukraine, half of occupied China and parts of Greece were by '43 filled with brigade-level partisan troops. In Belorussia they controlled most of the Pripet Marshes, easily worth of 6-8 provinces, and like their Yugoslavian counterparts had artillery and even armoured corps of their own. These hundreds of thousands of active soldiers that tied up dozens of Axis divisions and sucked them into serious toe-to-toe battles are completely lacking from HoI2, in which you can throw a couple of 2nd line garrison units to suppress a whole region, never losing a single soldier after deploying it, only a couple of abstract "trucks and trains". Hopely this will be seriously worked on for HoI3.

 

[Battlecry]

I'm hoping to see a combination of the positive points from both HOI2 and EU3: IN

i) the level of dissent/revolt risk/whatever in a province will cause complications with the new logistics model in some way.

ii) If both the dissent level and population are high enough, actual partisan units will arise. These units, depending on where/of what type they are, will be friendly to some nations and hostile to others, ala EU3:IN.

NOTE: I think a certain minimum population should be enforced - I'd rather not see partisan brigades forming in some Siberian or arctic wasteland province. If population figures are not included, then province manpower levels (which represent population anyway) could be used.

The partisan units don't have to be called divisions really, you could use the localisation to name them "Major Partisan Group", or simply "Uprising", "Guerillas" - whatever you want really. As simple as naming Wehrmacht divisions "Panzer" rather than "Armored".
Perhaps the strength/number of brigades could be altered according to dissent/population, and the unit's ORG set rather low.
(I know certain partisan groups reached relatively high levels of organization, but compared to an actual military unit they're not really in the same league).

OT: Uh, does anyone know how to tell, now, which threads we have posts in (other than via subscriptions)? The little "dots" are gone. Sorry for the OT but there isn't a forum to discuss the forum.

 

[unmerged(55504)]

What would be great is to make it so that large, sparesly populated provinces costs more to patrol, while the more densly provinces require more manpower to police in an adequate fashion. This would represent the fact that a large and sparsly populatede province would need it's patrolers to be equiped with more veicihles and other communication and transportation equpiment per man. It could be achived via a formula, but that would require such amounts of work that i'm quite hopeless in this aspect.

 

[daemonofdecay]

ii) If both the dissent level and population are high enough, actual partisan units will arise. These units, depending on where/of what type they are, will be friendly to some nations and hostile to others, ala EU3:IN.

Tying into this, I am almost certain we will see different partisan groups form that are loyal to different causes.

For instance, you might have Communist Partisans rise in a province, and if they are successful in forming thier nation it would be a Pro-Soviet one. For each nation there could be a number of different groups, depending on the original nation, like Royalists (Paternal Autocrat), Republicans (Market Liberal), Ultra-Nationalists (Facist), etc.

By giving these rebels a political loyalty in addition to a national identity, we could easily see rebels taking on a whole new depth. This could also tie into a game mechanic for supporting rebels: you could see in the intelligence screen which partisan groups are the strongest in a nation, and choose to back whichever you want.

Thus, while the UK might see that giving support to the much larger communist partisan groups would have a greater impact on Germany's ability to wage war, they would also need to balance the fact that if the partisans are successful they would form a communist rather than democratic nation.

 

[Alexander Seil]

There are political parties and the intelligence system is being reworked from scratch, so it doesn't seem to be much of a stretch to imagine that partisans will be tied to individual political parties. Especially as it is a natural extension of the IN revolt system. I think we're in for a grand treat on this one.