Part of my Empire joined Castille

[clicks_foolishly]

Good day, all

I'm a relative newbie to this game. In my latest game, i became emperor of carpathia a couple of generations back.

I often see my vassals rebel against each other and try and usurp each others counties and duchies. It is a source of some amusement to me, and it keeps them busy.

After the latest such incident, however, the entire duchy under dispute suddenly became part of Castille. The only message I got regarding this was that the duchy in question had been usurped. At no point was Castille even involved, to my knowledge, nor were any diplomatic requests sent my way.

I can find no links between the usurping duke and Castille, except that now the king of Castille is his liege. (I was his liege before)

I'm sure that there is a rational explanation for what happened, and that if i were a more seasoned player I'd have recognized the signs. But as it stands, I'm utterly clueless as to what happened. I've no idea of even where I'd start searching the wiki or the forums for an explanation.

So can anyone help? After all, when I retake my duchy, I'd like to know what to put on the insulting letter to Castille.

 

[StarSword]

Check the title history for the duchy in question. There's two possibilities I can think of:

• If the entry for the Castillian duke says "Installed by Faction Demand", that means he was landed in Castille and a faction in the duchy demanded that their current duke abdicate in favor of him.
• If it says "Peacefully Usurped", it means the King of Castille or one of his vassals held 51% of the counties, which allowed him to seize the title (basically turning being the de facto Duke of Asscrack into being the de jure Duke of Asscrack).

 

[clicks_foolishly]

I checked.

It says "Conquered by Claimant."

What does that mean?

 

[Garranger]

That might mean there was a faction demand for the duke to abdicate in favour of the castilan vassal, but he refused and lost the civil war.

 

[joos]

Shouldn't such claimant wars be considered against the top liege and involve the OP as well? I know they currently are only against the vassal duke, but here is a faction that is pretty much demanding secession by trying to install a foreign claimant. This has to be a matter for the entire crown and not just that vassal.

 

[clicks_foolishly]

So, mid-revolt, the revolt leader's lands were seized by someone landed in Castille?

I'm surprised I wasn't even notified of this.

How should I avoid such actions happening to me in the future?

 

[StarSword]

I checked.

It says "Conquered by Claimant."

What does that mean?

One more troubleshooting question before we can answer that. Since you mentioned you're an emperor, was the old duke of the disputed duchy your direct vassal, or did he belong to a king or viceroy of yours? Because the point that @joos raised is only true if the revolter is rebelling against an intermediate liege. A revolt is mechanically considered a temporary realm of the same rank as the liege, and a revolt against a non-independent liege will become a vassal of the next liege up (e.g. a count rebelling against a duke will become a duke-level vassal of the realm's king). In the case of rebellion against the top liege, though, they temporarily become independent, and foreign rulers can declare war on the revolt.

EDIT: From the sound of things, though, it's possible the vassals of the rebel duke factioned against him DURING the rebellion. I've seen revolts against revolts appear a couple times (during my last elective succession smackdown, the rebellious Duke of Mide tried to revoke the Earl of Cill Dara).

So, mid-revolt, the revolt leader's lands were seized by someone landed in Castille?

I'm surprised I wasn't even notified of this.

How should I avoid such actions happening to me in the future?

Unless you turned off notifications about inter-vassal wars, you should have at least gotten a message that the revolt ended inconclusively (though there's no specific message for the revolt ending such because the revolter became unlanded).

As far as solutions, check your claims. As former liege you'll probably have one for the lost territory.

 

[clicks_foolishly]

One more troubleshooting question before we can answer that. Since you mentioned you're an emperor, was the old duke of the disputed duchy your direct vassal, or did he belong to a king or viceroy of yours? Because the point that @joos raised is only true if the revolter is rebelling against an intermediate liege. A revolt is mechanically considered a temporary realm of the same rank as the liege, and a revolt against a non-independent liege will become a vassal of the next liege up (e.g. a count rebelling against a duke will become a duke-level vassal of the realm's king). In the case of rebellion against the top liege, though, they temporarily become independent, and foreign rulers can declare war on the revolt.

EDIT: From the sound of things, though, it's possible the vassals of the rebel duke factioned against him DURING the rebellion. I've seen revolts against revolts appear a couple times (during my last elective succession smackdown, the rebellious Duke of Mide tried to revoke the Earl of Cill Dara).


Unless you turned off notifications about inter-vassal wars, you should have at least gotten a message that the revolt ended inconclusively (though there's no specific message for the revolt ending such because the revolter became unlanded).

As far as solutions, check your claims. As former liege you'll probably have one for the lost territory.

The old duke was my direct vassal, for what it's worth.

I never disabled any such messages, so if they're on by default I should have gotten one.

The strange thing is that, while I have a de jure claim to every county in the disputed duchy, I don't seem to have a de jure claim on the entirety of the duchy.

 

[StarSword]

The old duke was my direct vassal, for what it's worth.

All right, so my guess is the duke's vassals factioned against him mid-revolt, and with the duke weakened by the revolt he was easy prey. And no, since it's a faction against the duke, even for a landed foreign claimant, they don't have to declare war against you the liege, just against him.

The strange thing is that, while I have a de jure claim to every county in the disputed duchy, I don't seem to have a de jure claim on the entirety of the duchy.

Enh, that's a pain. You sure they're de jure territorial claims and not regular personal claims? Because you could take them all back in one war if they're personal claims instead of having to wait out a truce.

 

[clicks_foolishly]

I have no other dealings with Castille.

So, another question: I declared war for one of those counties, and it's going very well, warscore at 70% and rising, but I can't offer peace. The option isn't available by right-clicking on the king of Castille's portrait, and if I click on the 'Offer Peace' button on the war overview, it doesn't give me any options and the Send button is greyed out.

Can anyone tell me why?

 

[josefrees]

You should be able to hover the mouse over the greyed out option and it will tell you what conditions need to be met

 

[clicks_foolishly]

There are no greyed-out options to hover over. It's not even putting the option to Enforce Demands or White Peace or whatever on the screen.

 

[StarSword]

EWW! BUG!

 

[clicks_foolishly]

Seriously?

How do I fix it?

 

[StarSword]

Seriously?

How do I fix it?

Try either going back a save, or pushing your warscore high enough that the King of Castille offers to surrender to you.

 

[Sergeant Flutter]

You can easily fix it by going to war with a de jure claim, if it's in your homeland.

If not, invite a the old duke to your court, land him, and then press hsm claim.

War is they only way I see to rid yourself of the problem, if you don't maintain firm control over your homeland the entire thing flies apart. You can see this when you fight against the A.I. If you capture the duchy of Seville from the Umayyads in the 769 start, they fall apart so quickly it's funny.

The war should be easy to win, Castile is in Spain, if you could fight quickly, you'l have won before they can get troops to the Carpathian basin.

 

[clicks_foolishly]

Ok, I fought the war with Castille to 100% war score, but I can't enforce peace, and the AI doesn't seem to want to surrender.

This is bugged behaviour, right? Can I fix it in any way without having to go back to an older save and declaring war again?

 

[Sergeant Flutter]

Ok, I fought the war with Castille to 100% war score, but I can't enforce peace, and the AI doesn't seem to want to surrender.

This is bugged behaviour, right? Can I fix it in any way without having to go back to an older save and declaring war again?

Yeah that seems to be a bug, UNLESS he has someone of our dynasty in his prison.

 

[clicks_foolishly]

Nope, all my dynasty is safe and sound.

 

[Sergeant Flutter]

Nope, all my dynasty is safe and sound.

Hmm, I think it's a glitch then.