Paratroopers

[Mr_B0narpte]

In line with what @Zsar1 has said about reporting bugs, I am making this thread in the hope that one day paratrooper combat will eventually be fixed.

The issues are:
* 1 paratrooper division can kill 100 retreating divisions simply by landing in the province they're retreating to (even if that province is being defended)

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/paratroopers.746435/

* Counter-attacking paratroopers gets an over-command penalty regardless of the leaders being used

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/paratroopers-geneal.658131/

* Several more bug issues that I forget as it's been so long since I've used them (I play online and we've banned paratroopers due to them for about a year now for being so over-powered) - if there is a chance of them being resolved then I will ask mcganyol if he remembers the other problems with paratrooper combat

 

[Zsar1]

Mmh... might sense a pattern here...
Noted.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

* Counter-attacking paratroopers gets an over-command penalty regardless of the leaders being used - this is a clear bug. After testing in 1.10 it is still present. Soviet paratroopers landed in Braila, Romania. Just the 1 Romanian garrison is in the province defending. The remaining Axis troops involved in the battle are all considered attackers. Additionally they are given the -75 overcommand penalty even when they have more then sufficient generals to prevent this. See the screenshot below, Tulcea has just two units supporting the defence of Braila, but they are still given the -75 overcommand penalty when a general who can lead 6 divisions is commanding them.




Here is a save for that battle, not sure if you need two people to load up as both the USSR & Germany to see the result due to all AI attacks ending upon reload. I have various saves for before and after the para landing. But this game has edited the misc, not sure that will effect anyone loading it.

This also shows that all Axis units outside of Braila are considered attackers, is this fair? Perhaps neither side should be considered attacking or defending (or both considered defending) due to the penalties involved in attacking. Axis units can support defence Braila, but they just become attackers like the rest. Combined with the above issue, this makes paratroopers very strong. It also means that units with 0 org retreating to a province currently involved in a paratroop battle die upon arrival, is this also fair? If paratroopers are still in battle with enemy units, how would they be able to prevent retreating enemy units from continuing their retreat?

Alongside this, is it fair the province where the paratroopers landed cannot be reinforced by the defenders? It effectively means one paratrooper division could not only block 50 enemy divisions from reinforcing a province, but it can also turn them into attackers, all with -75 overcommand penalty.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

@Zsar1

Re. paratroopers: Nay, not yet. It would move up in priority if save games with easy test cases were available, but I'll get to it eventually in either case.

Hopefully the above save game is an easy test case. I have edited the 1941 scenario to make it a massive paratrooper combat testing ground, I can send you the edited ger and sov 41 files if it helps.

 

[Zsar1]

Cannot hurt. It will be a bit until I have time for the next build, so I might as well try to squeeze in some reproduction work, in case any of these issues can be resolved easily.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

Unfortunately my new place won't have wi-fi until 29 September, I'll try and upload before then but its unlikely. But the save already uploaded pretty much has the scenario already there. I hope you're able to fix paratroopers very soon as there's a new multiplayer game starting very soon, it would be great for us to allow paratroopers back into the mix

 

[Zsar1]

Do not get your hopes up. I am currently quite involved in RL stuff and also right in the middle of a huge internal refactoring effort (changing how divisions are attached to on-map units) involving a couple hundred code changes, most of which sadly cannot be search&replaced (but the payoff is huge, at least on the code side: typical before-after is 5-20 vs. 3-5 lines of code; additionally the new memory layout is continuous per unit vs. only per division before, so more opportunity for compiler and processor level optimisations).

Until I am entirely done, the game will not compile; as I only commit running code (so that, if I get hit by a bus, it will be easier for someone else to pick up the pieces) I do not want to involve myself into independent code work, which would complicate rollbacks.
... In an ideal setup, the kind of monster commit I am preparing now would not be necessary, but with the groundworks dating back in parts to 1995 (and mostly 1998) such monolithic changes do come up; I want to do at least one per patch cycle, so that I (and hypothetical successors) may eventually be free of these relics.

Concise: no ETA for the next executable. Probably still this year, but might not.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

Do not get your hopes up. I am currently quite involved in RL stuff and also right in the middle of a huge internal refactoring effort (changing how divisions are attached to on-map units) involving a couple hundred code changes, most of which sadly cannot be search&replaced (but the payoff is huge, at least on the code side: typical before-after is 5-20 vs. 3-5 lines of code; additionally the new memory layout is continuous per unit vs. only per division before, so more opportunity for compiler and processor level optimisations).

Until I am entirely done, the game will not compile; as I only commit running code (so that, if I get hit by a bus, it will be easier for someone else to pick up the pieces) I do not want to involve myself into independent code work, which would complicate rollbacks.
... In an ideal setup, the kind of monster commit I am preparing now would not be necessary, but with the groundworks dating back in parts to 1995 (and mostly 1998) such monolithic changes do come up; I want to do at least one per patch cycle, so that I (and hypothetical successors) may eventually be free of these relics.

Concise: no ETA for the next executable. Probably still this year, but might not.

Thank you for the update and information. I think I follow - I hope alongside making it easier to improve the game your refactoring project improves online stability too through this optimisation.

Regarding paratroopers, please find the amended Germany and Soviet 1941 files for easier testing:- http://www.filedropper.com/ger41 http://www.filedropper.com/sov41

 

[KostasL]

Do not get your hopes up. I am currently quite involved in RL stuff and also right in the middle of a huge internal refactoring effort (changing how divisions are attached to on-map units) involving a couple hundred code changes, most of which sadly cannot be search&replaced (but the payoff is huge, at least on the code side: typical before-after is 5-20 vs. 3-5 lines of code; additionally the new memory layout is continuous per unit vs. only per division before, so more opportunity for compiler and processor level optimisations).

Until I am entirely done, the game will not compile; as I only commit running code (so that, if I get hit by a bus, it will be easier for someone else to pick up the pieces) I do not want to involve myself into independent code work, which would complicate rollbacks.
... In an ideal setup, the kind of monster commit I am preparing now would not be necessary, but with the groundworks dating back in parts to 1995 (and mostly 1998) such monolithic changes do come up; I want to do at least one per patch cycle, so that I (and hypothetical successors) may eventually be free of these relics.

Concise: no ETA for the next executable. Probably still this year, but might not.

I am glad you keep on improving our beloved AoD !

 

[Lennartos]

Working on this right now.
So fix will definitely be in 1.11

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

Working on this right now.
So fix will definitely be in 1.11

That is fantastic news!! It will be great to be able to use paratroopers once again Thank you so much!

 

[KostasL]

That is fantastic news!! It will be great to be able to use paratroopers once again Thank you so much!

Great news, indeed!