This does not apply here: I didn't attack a subject nation. I was the subject nation (Sweden) and declared war upon my Overlord Denmark.
@Tom D.
Paradox, you fucked up EU4 with MoH so bad, it's unplayable.
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@Tom D.
Did they join within 2 years of you declaring war on Denmark? If so, then they finished there wars and the positive reasons then outnumbered the negative and they joined the war.
You mentioned that Muscovy was already at war with Poland and Bohemia when you declared on Denmark. Were there any more nations that you might not have mentioned.
The scenario I am thinking of is, if Muscovy was already at war with one of the nations supporting your independence, then there will be no CTA from Denmark since Muscovy cannot join a war against someone they are already at war with.
This means that their alliance with Denmark won't break, and they can later join your war once the previous one is over.
Though for this to really work, Denmark will also have to be at peace with the nation supporting your independence and already at war with Muscovy(So separate peace maybe) Since the same thing will be applicable to that nation and they won't be able to join your war.
It's very unlikely but one of the few possible scenarios unless it's really a bug!
The scenario I am thinking of is, if Muscovy was already at war with one of the nations supporting your independence, then there will be no CTA from Denmark since Muscovy cannot join a war against someone they are already at war with.
This means that their alliance with Denmark won't break, and they can later join your war once the previous one is over.
Though for this to really work, Denmark will also have to be at peace with the nation supporting your independence and already at war with Muscovy(So separate peace maybe) Since the same thing will be applicable to that nation and they won't be able to join your war.
It's very unlikely but one of the few possible scenarios unless it's really a bug!
@Sanchit England was at peace, which supported my independence.
Despite all my rage, England managed to siege enough Muscovite forts causing them to offer white peace. After looking into it, I saw that I had +30 warscore against Muscovy and could force them to annul their alliances with Denmark and the piss-ant Ottomans, plus war reparations. This bought me enough time to unsiege one of my forts. This got me around 30 % warscore against Denmark enough for independence and war reparations.
TLDR: England was a huge help in the war. I managed to overcome the odds and got my independence from Denmark.
Despite all my rage, England managed to siege enough Muscovite forts causing them to offer white peace. After looking into it, I saw that I had +30 warscore against Muscovy and could force them to annul their alliances with Denmark and the piss-ant Ottomans, plus war reparations. This bought me enough time to unsiege one of my forts. This got me around 30 % warscore against Denmark enough for independence and war reparations.
TLDR: England was a huge help in the war. I managed to overcome the odds and got my independence from Denmark.
I've played more games to 1821 in this version than all others put together. This version isn't unplayable. I've formed Rome in this version. It's not unplayable.
As other people have said, Muscovy got some of it's stuff cleaned up and answered the call to arms. It's frustrating, but the UI didn't lie to you, it told you how things stood then. I personally always wait until I'm more than two reasons to the good before declaring a war were I need to knock out my opponents allies. Cause I've learned the hard way, political landscapes in this game change monthly.
As other people have said, Muscovy got some of it's stuff cleaned up and answered the call to arms. It's frustrating, but the UI didn't lie to you, it told you how things stood then. I personally always wait until I'm more than two reasons to the good before declaring a war were I need to knock out my opponents allies. Cause I've learned the hard way, political landscapes in this game change monthly.
When a DoW is called the nation doesn't have to instantly decide whether to accept - you have probably experienced this when you have been called to war. This is most obvious when you call allies of allies, when it sometimes takes months.
Probably what happened is that they dithered and did not reject outright, and then accepted the call in a few months when the numbers changed. I agree that the tooltip is badly designed in that regard, though.
Probably what happened is that they dithered and did not reject outright, and then accepted the call in a few months when the numbers changed. I agree that the tooltip is badly designed in that regard, though.
Paradoxs Qa team seems to be on permanent vacation, seeing the status in which the latest Hoi, ck2, stellaris and eu4 dlcs have been released.
While there is some truth to this, the scenario outlined by the OP is quite within the currently known "rules" of the game.
At the time of the DoW Muscovy was marked as not joining the war, they did not. Time passed and the OP did not force the scenario where Muscovy could no longer join the war (defender has less than -25 war score). Muscovy's situation changed-their war with Bohemia etc. ended, this changes the numbers to the point where they are now willing to fight and can be called (it probably took some time after the war ended unless it was a case where they were losing/occupied). Once the numbers said Muscovy would say yes the cta was sent and complied with. This is completely valid behavior as the rules currently stand, it is not a bug therefor not any sort of demonstration of poor QA, just a misunderstanding of changes made to the rules.
Obviously the game is not "literally" unplayable. Hyperbole is fun.
However, i will say that i was very excited about MoH, bought it day 1, played it for 2 days until the major bugs with colonial nations and HRE unlawful territory became clear, read about East Asia being a shitshow due to Ming, and have had 0 interest in playing since then.
Maybe I'm just jaded but even though I realise how difficult bug testing and quality control can be, it still doesn't make me want to keep powering through a buggy game.
However, i will say that i was very excited about MoH, bought it day 1, played it for 2 days until the major bugs with colonial nations and HRE unlawful territory became clear, read about East Asia being a shitshow due to Ming, and have had 0 interest in playing since then.
Maybe I'm just jaded but even though I realise how difficult bug testing and quality control can be, it still doesn't make me want to keep powering through a buggy game.
The most likely explanation in my eyes is that Muscovy did dishonor, the alliance broke, but then they re-allied, got a fresh CTA and joined.
The suggestion that the AI get a couple of months to decide like a player is iffy, whenever I've had my allies dishonor in a defensive war I get the popup that they have done so at the exact same time I get the popup that I have been DoWed. That may have been changed and it is a while since I have been DoWed, so it's possible.
The suggestion that it is because the CTAs didn't auto-send seems unlikely since the war was declared directly on Denmark and so Denmark's allies should be auto-CTA. Are there different rules for defensive CTAs in independence wars?
Regardless this doesn't seem to have very much to do with 1.20 or MoH, just a case of a player facing something unanticipated and raging about it.
The suggestion that the AI get a couple of months to decide like a player is iffy, whenever I've had my allies dishonor in a defensive war I get the popup that they have done so at the exact same time I get the popup that I have been DoWed. That may have been changed and it is a while since I have been DoWed, so it's possible.
The suggestion that it is because the CTAs didn't auto-send seems unlikely since the war was declared directly on Denmark and so Denmark's allies should be auto-CTA. Are there different rules for defensive CTAs in independence wars?
Regardless this doesn't seem to have very much to do with 1.20 or MoH, just a case of a player facing something unanticipated and raging about it.
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I'll definitely agree that the disappearing state cores is a nasty bug. Wipes out various battleground OPMs
The disputed mechanic is that Muscovy did not receive an immediate CTA, despite that this happens in most defensive wars in the game. The UI gave no indication otherwise in this case pre-war. "This particular DoW will use different rules from 90% of the wars you declare and we won't give you any indication that this is going to happen in advance" is misleading, even if it isn't necessarily a lie.
It's not like there aren't examples of objective, tautological UI lies in the game though:
So like I said earlier, you can't take the game UI on faith, and that undermines its core gameplay.
In present patch that would require a bug to happen and is very unlikely. There is a block on re-allying recently dishonored allies. You will notice if you dishonor CtA then try to ally your former ally again right away.
Totally off-topic: you madman, you did it. I was away for a while, I see that you did a world conquest as a North American native. Kudos!
i always thought, when you are DEFENDER , your allies are automaticaly called. so muscowy had to re-ally denmark.
wait...what?
that makes little sense.
But I'll take your word on it
So, is this considered a bug then?
welcome back
and thanks!
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The reason they weren't CtA'd was because they were already in a war on Denmark's side (according to your OP), so they couldn't go to war with someone they were already in a war with. Otherwise, defenders are forced to auto-CtA their allies (even the player has no say in this iirc). Unless I'm misremembering the rules here and/or they were changed in some patch? I think the UI might have told you if you had hovered over the checkbox, maybe; as TMiT said, the UI is... bad at telling the truth, so I'm not sure.
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Granted, I missed this the first time I read the thread too until I got to this post which reminded me of the mechanic.
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Granted, I missed this the first time I read the thread too until I got to this post which reminded me of the mechanic.