PARADOX WHY ohh WHYY?

[Mixxer5]

And how would you do that exactly? There are no accurate population census for most of the earth at that time. At best you'd have completely inaccurate estimates.

And why would You want accurate numbers? Or even if they'd be "accurate", showing numbers of every single person in province, than what's the problem? As I understand, pop system from Vicky would be totally unacceptable for most players, but simply number of people in province, their religion and culture (which we can directly influence- very easily) could be present (as well as taxation- they should have some reason to revolt finally, right?). Number of people would diminish over time if province is occupied by enemy.

Estimated numbers of people in certain areas are available, while indeed inaccurate- it's still much better than completely ignoring it.

 

[Illanair]

Estimated numbers of people in certain areas are available, while indeed inaccurate- it's still much better than completely ignoring it.

An opinion which I do not share - An abstracted system far superior.

 

[Raczynski]

So, no longer there will be a province in Poland with capital population of 1,000 next to Czech city with population of 60,000? Or Volodymyr having 40,000 people because someone confused it with Kiev? The horror.

 

[Mixxer5]

An opinion which I do not share - An abstracted system far superior.

Especially when You can convert province culture and religion to Your own, even if surrounded by different religion and culture?

And it's not like these estimates are heavily inaccurate- for most areas we've knowledge of when and how population increased and diminished, so it's not impossible to give realistic numbers.

 

[Huneymunster]

So, you will no longer see an province with a population of 1000 revolt from an event creating a stack of 1,000,000,000 rebels?

 

[Mixxer5]

So, you will no longer see an province with a population of 1000 revolt from an event creating a stack of 1,000,000,000 rebels?

Why not? As Portugal, newly colonized province (having less than 1000 people yet) spawned me 2000 peasant revolters.

 

[Illanair]

And it's not like these estimates are heavily inaccurate- for most areas we've knowledge of when and how population increased and diminished, so it's not impossible to give realistic numbers.

Yeah - It is.

 

[Mixxer5]

Yeah - It is.

How can You say?

 

[Illanair]

How can You say?

How can you say otherwise?

 

[Mixxer5]

How can you say otherwise?

But why would these estimates be heavily wrong? I don't want population counted to single person.

 

[Politikyiv]

Population will be arbitrary and impossible. Manpower, taxbase etc do well to simulate it.

However how about a new thing for each province, it can be called 'Progress' for want of a better term, and it would resemble population increases, middle class increases, early industrialization, early nationalism, early urbanisation and general enlightenment of the population. The level of progress can have some tie ins to tech (to decouple some of the monotony of monarch points), colonial revolts, revolutionary political movements (French Revolution) and production income.
Aside from different levels of progress triggering different things, it can also affect basic things like production value, manpower, revolt risk etc of a province. But it will not give a certain population number for the province, but will still be an abstract reference to the provinces progress as you play the game.

 

[DanubianCossak]

So, you will no longer see an province with a population of 1000 revolt from an event creating a stack of 1,000,000,000 rebels?

You do realize that in EU3 the provincial population number represented the CAPITAL city only, not the ENTIRE province? You could have 5000 people in capital and 500.000 in the province itself.

 

[Mixxer5]

Population will be arbitrary and impossible. Manpower, taxbase etc do well to simulate it.

So... Number of people in province will surely be arbitrary? But manpower and taxbase is 100% accurate?

 

[Thure]

But why would these estimates be heavily wrong? I don't want population counted to single person.

Look at EU3... Every province had unbelievable numbers of population at the end of the game... It didn't give the game flavour for me... It was just annoying to see Bremen with 9999999 population... It would add nothing to the game. Just some abstracted numbers.

 

[Lord Finnish]

So long as population effectiveness is presented one way or the other, I'm happy. So that a province in Finland won't produce as many soldiers and money as a province in France. And that is something EU4 has in form of manpower and base tax, so I can't complain.

 

[Mixxer5]

Look at EU3... Every province had unbelievable numbers of population at the end of the game... It didn't give the game flavour for me... It was just annoying to see Bremen with 9999999 population... It would add nothing to the game. Just some abstracted numbers.

But of course I agree that EU3 system was idiotic. That's why it'd need total overworking. But still I'm against removing something without adding anything.

 

[unmerged(139685)]

Representing population properly would require simulating migration within as well as between provinces. A total headache and in the end we still wouldn't have accurate data to test the validity of a universal migration model. We're really better off without it, let the base tax represent it.

On the other hand, I do think it's a loss that we now no longer have provincial modifiers (or an easy way to mod in extra buildings). I like to give some provinces a special treatment as a matter of internal policy. Besides building buildings there's not much you can do with provinces now except conquer them...

 

[Werther]

Population was totally not historical: you really think that rulers of the XVth knew that Kiev had exactly 13524 inhabitants. And the 9999999 was stupid.
For province decisions and magistrates, i'm glad that they remove them, something was wrong with that DW system.

 

[Mixxer5]

Population was totally not historical: you really think that rulers of the XVth knew that Kiev had exactly 13524 inhabitants. And the 9999999 was stupid.
For province decisions and magistrates, i'm glad that they remove them, something was wrong with that DW system.

Yeah, that's totally historical, that province located on Sahara erg is potentially as populous as one in the middle of France?

 

[Werther]

Yeah, that's totally historical, that province located on Sahara erg is potentially as populous as one in the middle of France?

????? In EU4? Sorry, but province have a hidden population number in EU4 and manpower and tax show that Sahara is less populous than a french province.
Population was totally wrong in EU3, sorry. I prefer nothing rather than wrong info. I love writing historical AAR, and population was surely the only information i never used in AAR except for colonies (and we have population for colonies in EU4), because it was so dumb, and just break immersion by stupid numbers, 9999999 limit etc.