Anyone of you remeber a Game called 'Gangsters - Organized Crime' published by Eidos?
I used to play that a lot and it was quite a good Game. You had to organize, plan, bribe, trade... Quite a good economic simulation. At the same time you had to manage all your Capos, Managers of business, your lawyer, your accountant, bribe Officials, the church, the press and so on. So you had a little bit of a role-play element in this game too. You would apply your characters acording to their talents to certain jobs, intimidate stubborn businessowners, buy off witnesses, or support certain politicians. You would also fight against other gangs, try to muscle them out of business in diffrent ways. Worst thing of cours would be, to go at war with them, because mostly that would mess up business for both.
Well, now, why do i think paradox should make such a game? First: When it comes to complexety, paradox are the ones who are best at it. Secondly, a mafia game would be a historical game - developing its storyline in the 20ths century - again something for paradox. And at Last, if you aknowledge, that in the organized crime everything depends on individual characters and their abilities you have to think of the great system in CK2. I think those are damn good reason for a Paradox-Mafia game. My ideas are pretty rough and based on the games Paradox allready made, but think of it as a first sketch.
The Map:
I would suggest a 2D Map like in the planning mode of 'Gangsters'.
But of course i would highly recommend a more realistic approach. The Map from 'Gangsters' is way to simple and boring. Blocks should be different sizes, maybe some diagonal roads as well, parks, ect. I think its clear what i mean.
Lets say the scenario would develope in one mayor US City.
The smallest 'province' would be a Block. Each Block contains certain building types, like business, industry, apartments, ect. That's where your basic business will take place.
The next bigger unit, would be a certain bundle of Blocks, forming a Neighborhood.
Next bigger unit should be a Community District. Followed by the Bouroughs. Bouroughs are administrative divisions you will have to cope with, before you can even think about dealing with the entire city.
There are also Countys and the at the end of it, the State.
So you to control the State you have to try to control or undermine all the administrations. That would work partly by controlling Key-positions in the administration, as well as on the map. So you don't have to 'conquer' everything to be the most powerful mobboss.
The Organization:
You start as a Gang, controlling only a few blocks in some Neighborhood. Its up to you if you make it a family business or if you keep your family out of it. Its up to you if you only hire italians, jews, irish, blacks or if you don't care at all. Your gang can be of very different ideologies or codices. If you want it to be like a elite club only for sicilians you will have a bonus when it comes about unity. Building up a gang only with your fellowmen will have certain advantages. First of all, at the beginning it will be easier to recrute people, for you will find plenty of them in your own neighborhood (little Italy). Secondly your gang will benefit from a solidarity bonus, and your member will be less likely to join other gangs in hard times, or squeal when they get arrested (Omerta). On the other hand your gangmembers will probably be reluctant to acept a member from other origin than their own, even if the guy is the best for the job. A gang that doesn't have such a origin based ideology will probably have a business bonus, as they can hire who ever is best for a certain job, but will have to deal with members that only care about money and less about loyalty.
As your gang grows, you will have to organize a hierarchy. You will have to handout titles, like capos, consigliere, ect. Giving those titles out will your member keep happy and organized. But it will be like in CK2. You will have characters that will be very ambitious, and will probably break rules, or disrespect your authority. You will have to find the proper answer to that, to keep your organization in order. How the hierachy would look like, i dont know exactly, but i guess the Familymembers would be the highest in the ranking. Of corse it doesn't mean the real family of the Boss - even if his brother or cousin is a 'made guy'. If we say family, we mean the organization. Of course when it comes to priorities, this is an important issue. Will the character choose his family over the 'other' family?
The most important thing is, that all your power depends on your relations with other characters. Bribing, recruting, killing, promoting, demoting, applying to a job, all this needs to be carefully considered. Its important to be very diplomatic about it.
The Characters:
Characters will be like in CK2. They will have skills, diseases, likes and dislikes, ambitions, priorities ect. Everyone of them will have his own relations and opinions to other characters he knows. They will also have their own lifes, going to work, having families, doing business, ect. Ambitions and priorities will be very important to predict how a character is going to react on propositions you make to him. A strict moral man, who only want to make an honest living is less likely to join your criminal ventures. But maybe the other guy who puts his family first, agrees with your values on family and loyalty, and will get slowly involved in your business.
Those characters that are your gangmembers also wont be soldiers just waiting for orders. You have to keep them happy and in line. You have to work carefully with the carrot and the stick, so that they wont start some shit and mess up. The worst thing that can happen to you is, that they don't leave you another choice but getting rid of them. Killing own members will always be bad on the moral and loyalty - except if you can justify it with a good reason (treason for example). Your men will probably start their own illegal business. Its up to you if you tolerate that, if you tax them, or if you decide that they bring to much heat up to you.
Like i said before - you are not an all powerful god. You depend on people, and you have to use all the diplomacy you have to keep business going. Relations and Characters are the most important part in the game. Of corse the same rules apply for Mayors, Policemen, District Attorneys, Journalists, Clergymen, Industrialbosses, Chairmens of tradeunits, ect.
Of course you don't have to deal with every little bum or prostitute in your city - but if you want, you can. And sometime you will have to. If one of them will testify against you, for example. Maybe you will have a prostitute for your 'goomah'? If that comes out, what will your wife say? and how will that affect the behavior of your members? Maybe you are powerful enough that your public image becomes important for you...
The ideology
What i mean by that is more like a codex that will be applied in your gang. What values will be important? Which ones will be helpful for business or for staying out of trouble. If your character is a greedy and unscrupulous guy he is likely to prefer a moneymaking ideology and not so much a familybased ideology. He still can choose familyvalues though, but he is likely to mess it up and he wont be very persuasive with those contradictions.
Ideologys will be a little bit like the policy sliders in EUIII. You will be able to modify them slowly - very slowly.
It will depend on the ideology what values are important: Family, honor, money, loyalty, ect...
Science and Society
of course you wont have a researchtree to follow. But of course you will have to deal with all the things happending in the 20th century. That includes technical developenents as well as socialchanges. Laws will change, Prohibition will come and go. Politics will try to pass laws to get you. Mirgation will change. You will have to deal with uprising new gangs from other countrys. The society values will change, diffrent business opportunitys will come and go. After the End of Al Capone organized crime decided to stay undercover and not show itself in public. Your clients will change as well as your recrutes and your partners.
Now the business part i havent worked out yet, maybe you have some thougts about it. But how you like the general ideas?
I used to play that a lot and it was quite a good Game. You had to organize, plan, bribe, trade... Quite a good economic simulation. At the same time you had to manage all your Capos, Managers of business, your lawyer, your accountant, bribe Officials, the church, the press and so on. So you had a little bit of a role-play element in this game too. You would apply your characters acording to their talents to certain jobs, intimidate stubborn businessowners, buy off witnesses, or support certain politicians. You would also fight against other gangs, try to muscle them out of business in diffrent ways. Worst thing of cours would be, to go at war with them, because mostly that would mess up business for both.
Well, now, why do i think paradox should make such a game? First: When it comes to complexety, paradox are the ones who are best at it. Secondly, a mafia game would be a historical game - developing its storyline in the 20ths century - again something for paradox. And at Last, if you aknowledge, that in the organized crime everything depends on individual characters and their abilities you have to think of the great system in CK2. I think those are damn good reason for a Paradox-Mafia game. My ideas are pretty rough and based on the games Paradox allready made, but think of it as a first sketch.
The Map:
I would suggest a 2D Map like in the planning mode of 'Gangsters'.
But of course i would highly recommend a more realistic approach. The Map from 'Gangsters' is way to simple and boring. Blocks should be different sizes, maybe some diagonal roads as well, parks, ect. I think its clear what i mean.
Lets say the scenario would develope in one mayor US City.
The smallest 'province' would be a Block. Each Block contains certain building types, like business, industry, apartments, ect. That's where your basic business will take place.
The next bigger unit, would be a certain bundle of Blocks, forming a Neighborhood.
Next bigger unit should be a Community District. Followed by the Bouroughs. Bouroughs are administrative divisions you will have to cope with, before you can even think about dealing with the entire city.
There are also Countys and the at the end of it, the State.
So you to control the State you have to try to control or undermine all the administrations. That would work partly by controlling Key-positions in the administration, as well as on the map. So you don't have to 'conquer' everything to be the most powerful mobboss.
The Organization:
You start as a Gang, controlling only a few blocks in some Neighborhood. Its up to you if you make it a family business or if you keep your family out of it. Its up to you if you only hire italians, jews, irish, blacks or if you don't care at all. Your gang can be of very different ideologies or codices. If you want it to be like a elite club only for sicilians you will have a bonus when it comes about unity. Building up a gang only with your fellowmen will have certain advantages. First of all, at the beginning it will be easier to recrute people, for you will find plenty of them in your own neighborhood (little Italy). Secondly your gang will benefit from a solidarity bonus, and your member will be less likely to join other gangs in hard times, or squeal when they get arrested (Omerta). On the other hand your gangmembers will probably be reluctant to acept a member from other origin than their own, even if the guy is the best for the job. A gang that doesn't have such a origin based ideology will probably have a business bonus, as they can hire who ever is best for a certain job, but will have to deal with members that only care about money and less about loyalty.
As your gang grows, you will have to organize a hierarchy. You will have to handout titles, like capos, consigliere, ect. Giving those titles out will your member keep happy and organized. But it will be like in CK2. You will have characters that will be very ambitious, and will probably break rules, or disrespect your authority. You will have to find the proper answer to that, to keep your organization in order. How the hierachy would look like, i dont know exactly, but i guess the Familymembers would be the highest in the ranking. Of corse it doesn't mean the real family of the Boss - even if his brother or cousin is a 'made guy'. If we say family, we mean the organization. Of course when it comes to priorities, this is an important issue. Will the character choose his family over the 'other' family?
The most important thing is, that all your power depends on your relations with other characters. Bribing, recruting, killing, promoting, demoting, applying to a job, all this needs to be carefully considered. Its important to be very diplomatic about it.
The Characters:
Characters will be like in CK2. They will have skills, diseases, likes and dislikes, ambitions, priorities ect. Everyone of them will have his own relations and opinions to other characters he knows. They will also have their own lifes, going to work, having families, doing business, ect. Ambitions and priorities will be very important to predict how a character is going to react on propositions you make to him. A strict moral man, who only want to make an honest living is less likely to join your criminal ventures. But maybe the other guy who puts his family first, agrees with your values on family and loyalty, and will get slowly involved in your business.
Those characters that are your gangmembers also wont be soldiers just waiting for orders. You have to keep them happy and in line. You have to work carefully with the carrot and the stick, so that they wont start some shit and mess up. The worst thing that can happen to you is, that they don't leave you another choice but getting rid of them. Killing own members will always be bad on the moral and loyalty - except if you can justify it with a good reason (treason for example). Your men will probably start their own illegal business. Its up to you if you tolerate that, if you tax them, or if you decide that they bring to much heat up to you.
Like i said before - you are not an all powerful god. You depend on people, and you have to use all the diplomacy you have to keep business going. Relations and Characters are the most important part in the game. Of corse the same rules apply for Mayors, Policemen, District Attorneys, Journalists, Clergymen, Industrialbosses, Chairmens of tradeunits, ect.
Of course you don't have to deal with every little bum or prostitute in your city - but if you want, you can. And sometime you will have to. If one of them will testify against you, for example. Maybe you will have a prostitute for your 'goomah'? If that comes out, what will your wife say? and how will that affect the behavior of your members? Maybe you are powerful enough that your public image becomes important for you...
The ideology
What i mean by that is more like a codex that will be applied in your gang. What values will be important? Which ones will be helpful for business or for staying out of trouble. If your character is a greedy and unscrupulous guy he is likely to prefer a moneymaking ideology and not so much a familybased ideology. He still can choose familyvalues though, but he is likely to mess it up and he wont be very persuasive with those contradictions.
Ideologys will be a little bit like the policy sliders in EUIII. You will be able to modify them slowly - very slowly.
It will depend on the ideology what values are important: Family, honor, money, loyalty, ect...
Science and Society
of course you wont have a researchtree to follow. But of course you will have to deal with all the things happending in the 20th century. That includes technical developenents as well as socialchanges. Laws will change, Prohibition will come and go. Politics will try to pass laws to get you. Mirgation will change. You will have to deal with uprising new gangs from other countrys. The society values will change, diffrent business opportunitys will come and go. After the End of Al Capone organized crime decided to stay undercover and not show itself in public. Your clients will change as well as your recrutes and your partners.
Now the business part i havent worked out yet, maybe you have some thougts about it. But how you like the general ideas?
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