Paradox should avoid selling focus trees as DLC

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Does nobody actually read what I say?
IMPLEMENTATION IS PURE SCRIPT WORK.
Anyone can copy something that took them three months to make in five minutes, freely, cheaply and without any kind of restriction (indeed, they encourage modding, and for good reason)
So they won't ever sell nation DLC like that, or put focus trees as a main standpoint
EDIT: Here's a question though, if someone removes the mod from the workshop, does it get deleted from the computers of the people who subbed?
You mean someone downloading a DLC and then reverse-engineering it and making a mod that just so happens to be identical to the DLC?
I don't see how PDX or Steam could possibly have an issue with that.

You do realize games arent made for free right? and that adding in a focus tree for every nation would take years and we'd never see the game released if they did it for launch. i'd rather have a game that is fun and released now and buy focus tree dlc then wait 6 years for a game that would end up canceled because devopment took to long.
Also this. I'm just happy most or all nations will be fleshed out. We get to play them for free unlike in CK2 (which is a bit of a grey area because you actually needed DLCs to play every featured nation), and we get to see them detailed unlike in HOI3.

Now if only PDX puts DLCs in affordable bundles, I'll be such a happy camper.
 

Lupis Volk

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If anything i think they'd sell nation packs. (that'd contain models, tech tree and national focus tree that are historic to said nation. like the Poland pack)
 
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overthewall

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I guess my point was misunderstood, I wasn't talking about dlcs with focus trees only, I know PDS wouldn't do that. Still, I'm against their inclusion into regional packs, which until now added only flavor stuff (you know, models,sounds, sometimes events&decisions) that did not aim to improve campaign gameplay, especially not for all countries in the campaign. But now in HoI4, NFs carry a lot more weight and improve such an essential part of the gameplay, I think it goes beyond flavors. After all they alter and differentiate country behavior, and you can be affected by that even if you don't control the DLC'ed country, as AI would behave differently (and more in line with historically feasible options, which is what the campaign is all about, and a selling point of the game). Granted that I might be mistaken and overvaluing importance of the focus trees, I've read the dev diaries but haven't watched WWW podcasts yet, then all what I've written will be irrelevant.
Of course PDS is justified in selling them and I'm aware of the work required by that. Yet, patches also require a great deal of work, and I don't see a big gap between what is currently added via patches and new focus trees; it is definitely not like a DLC, say Cossacks, including a wholly new mechanic with estates. Just saying that it would be "nice" if PDS doesn't monetize them, and as comments above show, not doing that would inevitably create conflicts with modders. With the current model, either PDS will allow such mods (podcat's post does not explicitly state that btw), which will make a selling point of regional pack DLCs irrelevant hence buyers may consider them over-priced, or they will take them down, which then will cause some serious stability hits and harm the company's reputation of consumer-friendliness (consumer-lovingliness?).

ps: seeing some attempts to troll, keep civil ppl

edit: A suggestion: Forgot its name but the team making Endless series has a system that can be applied to PDS games. So all DLCs give something like development points, which then used in surveys conducted by devs to decide on further development of the game. Consider this for HoI4, you buy a regional dlc, say M.East and gain 200 dev points. You then use those to push for M.Eastern focus trees and whatever you want, also by sales figures PDS sees the interest in M.East and begins working on that more, with focus trees and all that. In the end you get your M.Eastern flavors and focus trees, plus additional influence on development; PDS' cost for developing M.East is covered and gameplay improvements are delivered to all players, making the game better overall. If you are disturbed by them, yes, still there are free-riders, but all in all this seems fair enough.

keep coming back to this: When you think about it, this has become a necessity for paradox after all. Devs cannot hope to maintain their usual level of interaction with the community, even just the core PDX fans have reached a number that is unmanageable, and I think we can all agree how tiring it gets for devs. Accordingly, my words should not be considered as I haven't pre-ordered hoi4 yet meheh.
 
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MrNewVegas

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You mean someone downloading a DLC and then reverse-engineering it and making a mod that just so happens to be identical to the DLC?
I don't see how PDX or Steam could possibly have an issue with that.
People have been modding PDX games without the steam workshop for as long as they've been moddable. As long as the implementation of a mod is purely script work, it's going to be easy to copy. I was wondering if some person uploads a "mod" that is just a copy of the DLC, and people download that mod using the steam workshop, and then it is deleted from the workshop, does it get deleted from your computer? My guess would be no, or at least, there'd be some easy way to prevent that from happening.
I'm just bringing up all the reasons they've probably already though of as to why nation focus trees are a really bad idea to sell.
 
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safe-keeper

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I guess my point was misunderstood, I wasn't talking about dlcs with focus trees only, I know PDS wouldn't do that. Still, I'm against their inclusion into regional packs, which until now added only flavor stuff (you know, models,sounds, sometimes events&decisions) that did not aim to improve campaign gameplay, especially not for all countries in the campaign.
Crusader Kings II regional packs more often than not included gamepaly changes. The Old Gods allowed the Vikings to sail up rivers and do coastal raiding, for example.

Either way, I'm not against more focus trees. They'll make the game more fun and interesting, and I'm all for that. I suppose they could release focus trees for free when they released regional DLCs, but then they'd essentially cut the hardest-to-make and most important part of the DLC out, and I'm sure that'd hurt sales.
 
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Himliano

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I've always thought Paradox should focus on: release game, vanilla. Fixed enough to be fun and good.
And then, bugfixes on patches.

Do you want more money? Put in new mechanichs on DLCs. But not like some stuff on EU4 that break the game if you don't have that one DLC. Don't break the game you sold to someone, that's not nice.

Don't go into "oh, a DLC to add stuff to this country, with events and such". Come on Paradox, you have one of the best communities of modders, always analizing tons of data, reports and books to put in the most fun, immersive, realistic stuff. Just give them the tools and they will take your good games to LEGENDARY status.. Give them a good, reliable platform and they will complete it for you... for free!! They just want to play an awesome game. Your game!

Please don't kill such a magical thing by pure greedy.
 
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overthewall

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Hm I haven't played CK2 for a loong time, but wasn't "The Old Gods" an expansion, with new starting dates and so on? What I had in mind with regional dlcs is similar to portrait&unit packs. Regardless, glad to agree to disagree, hopefully pdx will take into account all that was debated here.

Crusader Kings II regional packs more often than not included gamepaly changes. The Old Gods allowed the Vikings to sail up rivers and do coastal raiding, for example.

Either way, I'm not against more focus trees. They'll make the game more fun and interesting, and I'm all for that. I suppose they could release focus trees for free when they released regional DLCs, but then they'd essentially cut the hardest-to-make and most important part of the DLC out, and I'm sure that'd hurt sales.
jor dlcs.
 
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HeliumMaster

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The national dlc is not just a focus tree. it also includes 2d and 3d art, portrait and a lot of other things. Official dlc often has a better integration with the original game content to be said. The release strategy right now for paradox is to release a imperfect game and fix it afterwards. developing team using those dlcs to shape the game to become what it really should be.
to be said, i agree with the point that they are selling too many dlcs for 20+ dollars right now.
 
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