Paradox... please ...

[Bobby555nc]

This is why you read reviews before you purchase, disaster releases seem to industry standard nowadays. The forums just give the same answers: "get used to it" "impossible to catch" "what do you want perfection", all varieties of dismissal. Ive been a multi decade gamer myself and I can tell you, it didnt used to be this way. I think the bean counters found out they could save a certain % on testing and ever since that its slowly become the majority. The % they save certainly doesnt go towards a better product.

Bought every expo on release, but Im just burnt out of this discussion of why things take months to fix. Stop making 6 games at the same time and put some real effort in them. If there were quality features here, I could be patient and still buy. But the combo of uninteresting features and massive bugs? 52 positive reviews vs 44 negative review on steam AND a higher price tag?

 

[gia257]

How would a beta period for DLC even work? Does everybody wait for the DLC to be released, except for a minor group? Then you still won't find all bugs. Does everybody who wants to play the DLC get to play the beta? That would probably be 80% of the forum population, so the beta launch basically becomes the official launch.

you release the beta, no achievements, no save compatibility offered, all the players join regardless ofc, but they pay zero, so they cant complain about your shitty buggy beta, if they do you ban them

once the features of the beta have no bugs (so previous patch bugs can persist), you cancel the beta, and release for a price

 

[Apollyonna]

you release the beta, no achievements, no save compatibility offered, all the players join regardless ofc, but they pay zero, so they cant complain about your shitty buggy beta, if they do you ban them

once the features of the beta have no bugs (so previous patch bugs can persist), you cancel the beta, and release for a price

I was not even talking about BETA'ing the DLC but the main patch which is free for everyone anyway, as the 1.13.2 beta

 

[gia257]

This is why you read reviews before you purchase, disaster releases seem to industry standard nowadays. The forums just give the same answers: "get used to it" "impossible to catch" "what do you want perfection", all varieties of dismissal. Ive been a multi decade gamer myself and I can tell you, it didnt used to be this way. I think the bean counters found out they could save a certain % on testing and ever since that its slowly become the majority. The % they save certainly doesnt go towards a better product.

Bought every expo on release, but Im just burnt out of this discussion of why things take months to fix. Stop making 6 games at the same time and put some real effort in them. If there were quality features here, I could be patient and still buy. But the combo of uninteresting features and massive bugs? 52 positive reviews vs 44 negative review on steam AND a higher price tag?

As a developer, my boss doesnt want me to do buggy "updates" to our system and completely hates me for that (I always have bugs, major ones), but he can go f off, im not testing everything, its WAY easier when they come to me with bugs. Now a serious company would have a test suite, test protocols and a lot of bureacracy to make sure they get it right on the first time (and that means people other than me doing these and coming back to me with the bugs because I'm not doing it). But its just SO incovenient for developers the smaller the team is because the programmer definitely doesnt want to deal with all of the testing, you just test it runs and whatever possible error you can come up with at the moment, you dont start thinking about how it will interact with every other single part of the giant software without missing anything, brains dont work like that.

Now paradox can probably afford the bureaucracy but its still a pain, but there are compromises that can be taken. I mean I dont get to charge until the work is actually working

I was not even talking about BETA'ing the DLC but the main patch which is free for everyone anyway, as the 1.13.2 beta

Well I quoted him but it works the same with a free patch. Usually a small patch is smaller so they could actually test those themselves. This cossacks patch was HUGE.

 

[indika_tates]

The current state of the game is broken. This is the 4th campaign I have to abandon due to bugs. Two of them because the CTD autosave crash. The last one because I can't peace out a war and I have 20 WE. So it's funny paying for an incomplete product and more even to do it as free betatesters. There will be ever bugs on a release, but the difference between Paradox and Total War is every day less noticeable.

I'll think twice before buying a game from them. I feel I have been scammed and I'm not the only one. They should refund us what we have paid for the game.

 

[Bobby555nc]

The current state of the game is broken. This is the 4th campaign I have to abandon due to bugs. Two of them because the CTD autosave crash. The last one because I can't peace out a war and I have 20 WE. So it's funny paying for an incomplete product and more even to do it as free betatesters. There will be ever bugs on a release, but the difference between Paradox and Total War is every day less noticeable.

I'll think twice before buying a game from them. I feel I have been scammed and I'm not the only one. They should refund us what we have paid for the game.

Its tough to find any video developer who actually still has real respect for its customers. And Im not talking about sweet little PR statements talking about how much they care. Public relations (PR) were created when you didnt want to change at all BUT you wanted people to feel better about you. "We are doing everything we can and are very concerned" and like 70%+ really think that talk like that matters. Talk is cheap.

 

[Nassau]

I don't get the hate Paradox gets. Yes bugs are annoying, but all games have them. It is hard, if not completely impossible to prevent bugs form occurring. We can only appreciate and expect Paradox to be as open as they possible can about their process of solving them and about developing the game in general.

 

[grommile]

Its tough to find any video developer who actually still has real respect for its customers.

It has always been tough to find video game developers who have real respect for their customers.

Some of us can remember the days when, if a game had a serious bug, if you were lucky the developer would fix it and be willing to send you replacement media if you sent the original game disks to them (at your own expense) with a payment of $5.95 for shipping and handling and waited 4-6 weeks for delivery.

 

[Bobby555nc]

I don't get the hate Paradox gets. Yes bugs are annoying, but all games have them. It is hard, if not completely impossible to prevent bugs form occurring. We can only appreciate and expect Paradox to be as open as they possible can about their process of solving them and about developing the game in general.

"We" can only appreciate? You and the others running around telling people how to feel and think are just pissing people off. If you love things how they are, shouldn't you be actually playing the game? Some of "us" cant. Because bugs. And saying "all games have bugs" is the most apologist nonsense I have read. All roads have car accidents, so lets not fix the roads, great logic.

 

[happymix91]

The current state of the game is broken. This is the 4th campaign I have to abandon due to bugs. Two of them because the CTD autosave crash. The last one because I can't peace out a war and I have 20 WE. So it's funny paying for an incomplete product and more even to do it as free betatesters. There will be ever bugs on a release, but the difference between Paradox and Total War is every day less noticeable.

I'll think twice before buying a game from them. I feel I have been scammed and I'm not the only one. They should refund us what we have paid for the game.

Refund as you want. Tell them or go to court.

 

[happymix91]

"We" can only appreciate? You and the others running around telling people how to feel and think are just pissing people off. If you love things how they are, shouldn't you be actually playing the game? Some of "us" cant. Because bugs. And saying "all games have bugs" is the most apologist nonsense I have read. All roads have car accidents, so lets not fix the roads, great logic.

No one said that they shouldn't fix the bugs.

 

[grommile]

"We" can only appreciate? You and the others running around telling people how to feel and think are just pissing people off. If you love things how they are, shouldn't you be actually playing the game? Some of "us" cant. Because bugs. And saying "all games have bugs" is the most apologist nonsense I have read. All roads have car accidents, so lets not fix the roads, great logic.

Software that is in a position to kill people has bugs. (Rightly, people get hauled over the coals for them when they come to light... assuming they're still working wherever they were working.)

The question, then, for software with rather lower stakes involved is always "are the bugs that got into the wild both easily-enough triggered to be detected in the relatively constrained circumstances of a test environment and severe enough to justify delaying the release?".

Some of EU4 1.14's bugs probably meet those criteria, some certainly don't, and reasonable people can disagree about where the line lies.

 

[Dalos]

I asked the CK2 team this, they said they "don't do a lot of automated testing" which kind of explains a lot.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...he-qa-team-on-ck2.887625/page-4#post-20113280

Yeah, I remember your question and was frankly really surprised. Not suprised on the other hand by difficulties during manual testing - it must be hell sometimes...

I asked that question here because I kind of hoped it could be handled differently in EU4 team... But not much hope in this one

That said it's really incredible how good game looks like without automated testing. Must be tough...

 

[Scottx105]

just like how people are over blowing the problems with Cossocks?

Overblown? I think not. We have ridiculous bugs coming in where people's UI (my friend had this in a multiplayer game last night) literally begins to disintegrate causing them to lose certain game play functionality (UI areas disappear and buttons stop working), and this is not unfounded as people are recording these bugs with screenshots and video.

This is without a doubt the worse DLC paradox has released, and this is backed up by the reviews on the DLC page now at 50%, last week they were at 84% so something is seriously wrong. And don't come here saying "It's not representative", of course it is, in fact its the most important representation because its the one that directly effects if people are going to buy the DLC or not! I've even gone as far to report the DLC for not outlining all the specific features involved such as MASSIVE UI changes, graphical changes and how broken the DLC actually is, not to mention some of the changes not even mentioned in the patch notes such as increasing rebel strength (take the last part with a pinch of salt as I got it from a third party source).

To make matters wrose, this DLC has some questionable design decisions which quite frankly were poorly thought out, the new estates system sounded cool but its in game performance is little short than annoying, especially if you don't want to focus on the estates which then slap you in the face with ridiculous penalty events, the fort system which was promised does not work and has completely broken the current fort system and the AI in some situations (AI ping ponging back and forth not knowing what to do). Just fix your DLC paradox, in this day and age it is NOT acceptable to release a buggy product, its like selling someone a chair that can't take the weight of someone who is more than 8 stone and not advertising it.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt previously paradox buying all these DLC's because of how good your track record was before now, but after spending in the region of around £100 on this game including DLC, its not funny anymore.