Many, many people have been asking them to make the game harder for years.
And FYI. Believing these forums represent the majority of CK2 players is a fallacy. These forums easily represent <5% of CK2's active playerbase.
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Paradox: Please remove Shattered Retreat and Coalitions
- Thread starter Soilus
- Start date
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We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
And FYI. Believing these forums represent the majority of CK2 players is a fallacy. These forums easily represent <5% of CK2's active playerbase.
That sounds much more logical to me.
I have no problem with adding challenge. But this move just seems cheap to me. I would agree to let us have the option of the old style alliance and retreat mechanics.
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Shattered retreat sounds like a lazy way to make the game harder. It's certainly not in for reasons of realism because armies didn't retreat vast distances, they more or less disintigrated after being routed. I would say that what we had before was more realistic.
Paradox have caved in to demands by people who are either too lazy, too stubborn or both to adapt their game play or mod the game to their liking and as a result everyone else is now saddled with a tedious and annoying game mechanic that no one asked for. Way to go guys.
Like WOL and HL before it I won't be buying Conclave. Although all have content that appeals to me, they also have content that would ruin the game for me. I continue to enjoy 2.3.6.
Paradox have caved in to demands by people who are either too lazy, too stubborn or both to adapt their game play or mod the game to their liking and as a result everyone else is now saddled with a tedious and annoying game mechanic that no one asked for. Way to go guys.
Like WOL and HL before it I won't be buying Conclave. Although all have content that appeals to me, they also have content that would ruin the game for me. I continue to enjoy 2.3.6.
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This is why I usually wait a few hotfixes before I play new updates! Hopefully enough people give opinions for those who are playing it as it is atm.
I would like to know where you got that number. Its a 4 year old game, I think that most people who play it to this time is invested to the point of at least watching reddit/forums.
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Paradox didnt listen the warnings about Shattered retreat and zealus fans were in denyal as allways. Now we are seening undying armies which we force to chase. This is exactly how I imagined a wild goose chase and this is exactly whats happening.
Casulaties calculated very very poorly, retreating armies gets movement speed bonus???on what logical ground??? wars ending without sieges.
Another stubborn but poor, decision is shadowing good features in Patch&DLC. Its in Paradox DNA.
Casulaties calculated very very poorly, retreating armies gets movement speed bonus???on what logical ground??? wars ending without sieges.
Another stubborn but poor, decision is shadowing good features in Patch&DLC. Its in Paradox DNA.
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For me, this has been extremely annoying.
I was playing in ironman and using the Steam cloud service to store saved games. I did not hear all this major changes before. And found completely impossible to complete the S.P.Q.R achievemnt.
Now I try to conquer a de iure land and a cross-religious and cross-culture Coalition will attack me in the opposites site of the map. And now I can enjoy retreats of thousands of kilometers in a completely insane game of chasing armies. I would start another ironman game, but I have been playing for weeks on this.
By the way, the tabbed version of some things is also annoying. Before I was able to assign my counselors just using the shortcut. Now, If I closed the window I have to use the keyboard shortcut AND click in the tab.
I was playing in ironman and using the Steam cloud service to store saved games. I did not hear all this major changes before. And found completely impossible to complete the S.P.Q.R achievemnt.
Now I try to conquer a de iure land and a cross-religious and cross-culture Coalition will attack me in the opposites site of the map. And now I can enjoy retreats of thousands of kilometers in a completely insane game of chasing armies. I would start another ironman game, but I have been playing for weeks on this.
By the way, the tabbed version of some things is also annoying. Before I was able to assign my counselors just using the shortcut. Now, If I closed the window I have to use the keyboard shortcut AND click in the tab.
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Seems to me that the shattered retreat mechanic is just the age-old "ping-pong armies" bug recycled as a feature. They worked so hard to squash it and succeeded! Why break it again?
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I get the feeling that the dev team from 2012 through 2014/15 isn't the same as the dev team from 2014/2015 through now.... EU4'esque features and mechanics seems an abrupt departure from what's been established since release... Once a game has been out a few years, I don't see a need for such changes. Tweaks and content, optional DLC certainly, yeah I'm cool with it. Own them all (except Conclave). But as I said earlier, I like CK2, not EU3.5/EULite.
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Simply by looking at the concurrent players on Steam vs likes/dislikes on recent dev diaries. And FYI believing all CK2 players have been playing since Day 1 is also a fallacy. So is believing that all CK2 players who played in 2012 still play it.
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Yes! It's fine to have an army evaporate after a crushing loss but then see some men return later for recruitment. But the idea of intact armies racing at faster than cavalry speed hundreds of miles, sometimes through enemy lines and away from their own territory, is just silly. It's the old ping-pong armies bug on steroids.
Better to have the army disappear but see men added to a recritment pool later. When, where, how many and how fast could depend on things like your martial ability, loyalty of vassals, etc. This could be done in a way that makes sense and actually adds an element of strategy.
Would this help two-province realms much? No, they probably wouldn't have time to recover. But a small realm that has its only army shattered in battle shouldn't be able to recover anyway - and havng its army flee to the moon doesn't make any sense.
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The shattered retreat mechanism is precisely there to prevent you from chasing a defeated army. There was nothing more annoying than the "ping-pong strategy", when the winner of a battle would just follow back and forth the losing army from one province to the other, until they are completely annihilated.
Before 2.5, the army that lost the first battle pretty much lost the entire war.
Now, with the addition of the shattered retreat and the reinforcement in friendly territory, the loser can come back in force and get a chance to change the outcome (especially if the winner of the first battle is sieging, and thus has not been reinforcing).
Great addition. Wars are now much more interesting.
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That's certainly the theory, but it doesn't really work that way. The problem is that if you don't chase them, then there is no "outcome." It's just an endless loop of inconsequential battles.
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I think you realy dont tell the truth. Why? I really dunno why maybe too in love with game I dunno.
In Reality
You are force to chase an army and finish the job. Also While keep hammering smaller army which never ends? Even at EU they know this is going to be a problem and If shattered army chased It will be end for It because of low morale and also Forts protecting your lans to pass and allows you to reinforce your shattered army in safe.
This is intruducing a strategy!
But in CK2 Its no strategy. You just chase and rekt small army and get tons of warscore in the proccess. Wars ending without sieges!
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I would agree with you, had the loser not been a single count rebelling against me. There is literally zero chance of him winning. The retreating serves only to prolong the inevitable (and make me wait for months, if not years, for the warscore to tick up to 100%).
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Wars are won by battles and sieges. You want to chase them around to get that whole 75% warscore, then that is your choice. You will still need to siege. Or you can win the battle, siege some holdings and fight them again once they come back.
You should not be getting more than 75% war score from battles. Where are you getting more than 75% to end a war from battles by chasing a army around?
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On the contrary, I experienced it myself in my latest game.
Both my army and the enemy's army were at about 1300 men. Unfortunately, the enemy had better morale, and despite heavy losses on both sides, my army gets its ass handed to it.
The enemy army wins and start sieging my capital with about 800 men. My army flees in shattered retreat with about only 400 men left.
Thanks to the reinforcement in friendly territory, I quickly reinforce back to about 850 men and head back to my besieged capital. Guess what ? The enemy army, which is in hostile territory, has not reinforced and even has taken some losses from the siege events. They are now at about 700 men. With my 850 men army, I made short work of them.
I just hired some mercenaries to keep my dominant position, and eventually won the war.
Before 2.5, the enemy would have chased the last remnants of my defeated army just after the first battle to destroy it for good, and I would have lost the war.
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So the shattered retreat feature makes the game easier, not harder? I thought people wanted the opposite.
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10-1 advantage should destroy the unit, is that not happening - what you are probably seeing is the unit losing all morale before taking losses, but it's like that in 2.4.5