Paradox: Please remove Shattered Retreat and Coalitions

[Soilus]

Title says it all. Please completely remove shattered retreat, it doesn't make any sense as currently implemented and does more harm than good. It's possible that a future incarnation of Coalitions would be acceptable (only rulers of your religious group; must be nearby; exception made if ruler is related to you; other common-sense changes), but as it stands today the mechanic is terrible and should be totally removed until it's been rethought and rebuilt.

Don't get me wrong, I love the new content and the improvement to internal mechanics is awesome, but these two mechanics are total trash and ruin the game. The only way the game is playable at all is with a mod that turns off coalitions and by editing one of the lines of source code to disable shattered retreat. So basically these features are so terrible that people are actively removing content from a DLC they just bought in order to make it playable.

Please just put a patch out turning these features off immediately, and don't wait a few weeks while you "fix" them. Until these two features are out of the game Ironman is unplayable.

Edit: I had originally said " no one likes" shattered retreat because I was frustrated. Obviously some people do like the mechanic. However, I still think it needs to be significantly nerfed. Sometimes, armies do get totally crushed in a battle (ie, can't always shattered retreat), and retreating helter skelter should have MASSIVE attrition penalties. It's not like you had time to pick up your supplies, food, etc when you were being routed.

 

[shulima]

I have no opinion on coalitions yet, but HOLY SHIT is shattered retreat annoying.

I love chasing a 100-man unit of my rebelling vassal around the map forever with my 2000 mercenaries. Not.

 

[Nyrael]

They won't remove features. Rework? Yes. But remove? Definitely not.

 

[Rostan]

Shattered retreat is one of the poorer features of EU4, and I dislike it. However, I felt that it is not as bad in CK2, probably due to smaller provinces. In EU4 retreats of 3000 km were fairly common when playing Russia (yes, super realistic for an early modern setting), but at least in the smaller provinces of Western Europe the distances for retreats seemed more balanced.

I have yet to see how coalitions work. I hope it does not get a cross-religious cross-cultural dimension of the kind that makes EU4 alliances ridiculous.

 

[DaVincix]

Both items, shattered retreat and infamy/coalitions, critizised are easily moddable in defines.lua.

Grab Notepad++ for the modding job.
Game files in CK2 are made moddable (easily in most cases), so the users can make their own custom balance etc..

And btw., i agree with your critic basicly (i just will modify them, but not a removal, but balancing), but one cannot kinda expect/demand simply a fast counter-patch to their just promoted features. What you should aim for is making "suggestions".

 

[Thrake]

Shattered retreat is a boon; wars decided in 1 battle were really horrible and abusable and made warfare really poor.

Coalitions are a good way to contain massive blobbing, I need to test more though but it looks fine to me so far.

 

[Duke of Adamski]

I actually don't mind it, so that's one person out of "everyone" who disagrees... sure systems need work, but hey they always do, cough decadence

 

[R'hllor]

I have yet to see how coalitions work. I hope it does not get a cross-religious cross-cultural dimension of the kind that makes EU4 alliances ridiculous.

Then I must tell you that it has the same ridiculous dimension, and in CK2 they are even worse.

 

[tngen toppa]

well i don't know if shattered retreat is a complete fail i just know one thing for the moment.
before it was possible to win a war even though you were greatly outnumbered by crushing separated armies,but now this option is just not there anymore,its like eu4 now,whoever has the greater numbers wins.
at the same time warfare becomes a little more interesting,so I'm still undecided

 

[CVDE]

Was fighting in my own territory(Essex) against Mercia in 769. I was getting my a$$ handed to me, so I knew I was going to lose the battle. But before I loss, I thought my defeated army would retreat to Middlesex and regroup, since it the only other county I own in my two county duchy that we weren't fighting in.....BUT NOPE!!! My army decides its a great idea to retreat ALL THE WAY TO Durham in NORTHUMBRIA!!!

Im not calling for a complete removal of the SR mechanic, but it needs to be a bit more smarter on where defeated armies retreat to. I mean how come my defeated army didn't retreat to the unoccupied enemy territory? or better yet my tributary ally lands in the Duke of Kent even? Come on Paradox.

 

[Rostan]

Was fighting in my own territory(Essex) against Mercia in 769. I was getting my a$$ handed to me, so I knew I was going to lose the battle. But before I loss, I thought my defeated army would retreat to Middlesex and regroup, since it the only other county I own in my two county duchy that we weren't fighting in.....BUT NOPE!!! My army decides its a great idea to retreat ALL THE WAY TO Durham in NORTHUMBRIA!!!

Im not calling for a complete removal of the SR mechanic, but it needs to be a bit more smarter on where defeated armies retreat to. I mean how come my defeated army didn't retreat to the unoccupied enemy territory? or better yet my tributary ally lands in the Duke of Kent even? Come on Paradox.

That is the issue with shattered retreat: armies retreat too far. I think a system in which armies would dissolve and be able to partially reform at the recruitment point of the levies (after some delay) would have been smarter than retreats lasting several months and stretching hundreds of km...

 

[CVDE]

I actually don't mind it, so that's one person out of "everyone" who disagrees... sure systems need work, but hey they always do, cough decadence

I agree

 

[CVDE]

That is the issue with shattered retreat: armies retreat too far. I think a system in which armies would dissolve and be able to partially reform at the recruitment point of the levies (after some delay) would have been smarter than retreats lasting several months and stretching hundreds of km...

I own EU4 but haven't played it since I found the joy of RPing in Ck2 so I couldnt really relate to all the grumbling about this mechanic coming here, until today. This really needs some work done, your solutions seems best, hopefully Paradox recognizes this.

 

[anbory]

Solidary with Soilus. CK2 don't need such mechanics as shattered retreat and coalition in this conditions as they are. Rework it, please.

 

[Isinfier]

Coalitions could probably do with some adjusting. I've conquered a few territories in Sweden and seen characters as far away as Persia and Mali suddenly join a coalition against me.

Like, I appreciate the enthusiasm guys, but please. SWEDEN IS STRONK.

 

[AllThat4Nothing]

Was there any community wide asking for things like Coalitions and Shattered Retreats to be added............?

I'm just wondering at PDox's motivations for this. Currently not playing CK2, but, I don't like how this all sounds. I want CK2 to be CK2, not EU3.5...

 

[Dracko81]

This thread really should of been 2. They are completely separate mechanics.

Also not sure you could be calling for a removal inside a day of release or even considering modding it out. These things are going to be balanced with how the combat system now works and just removing something is going to cause things to go a little wonky. Play with it for more than a couple of hours, then come back and provide reasons you don't like it. FYI ahistorical as a reason don't fly.

 

[DukeDayve]

It needs some work, sure, but it's way better than two 20k armies meeting and one losing 19k men while the other loses only 300 men.

 

[Anubid]

Was there any community wide asking for things like Coalitions and Shattered Retreats to be added............?

I'm just wondering at PDox's motivations for this. Currently not playing CK2, but, I don't like how this all sounds. I want CK2 to be CK2, not EU3.5...

There was asking to make the game harder. I think this was the poorest way to do that.

PDox please, at least make it optional.

 

[Anubid]

This thread really should of been 2. They are completely separate mechanics.

Also not sure you could be calling for a removal inside a day of release or even considering modding it out. These things are going to be balanced with how the combat system now works and just removing something is going to cause things to go a little wonky. Play with it for more than a couple of hours, then come back and provide reasons you don't like it. FYI ahistorical as a reason don't fly.

Look up some screens on reddit. There are coalitions of whole Europe across multiple religions! We had more than enough time to make up our minds about it so we dont need "to play with it" for more than few hours to dislike it to its very core.