Paradox, please remove 50% autonomy colonial cap from African/Native American states

[finkellll]

They added several hundred provinces to the areas in the game you guys are mentioning. Even if they had 1 BT each with 0% autonomy the colonized portions of Siberia/NA/SA would quickly overpower the rest of the map. This would make same continent colonizing an absolute must, which is the behavior Wiz said he was trying to slow down (since it was far more efficient/powerful compared to overseas colonizing and/or war and/or dipplovassal).

With how much everyone is complaining they will probably rebalance the LA amounts in 1.9, but I wouldn't expect 0% LA for same continent colonizing because we would have wildly unbalanced Base Tax.

 

[Ralepozozaxe]

They added several hundred provinces to the areas in the game you guys are mentioning. Even if they had 1 BT each with 0% autonomy the colonized portions of Siberia/NA/SA would quickly overpower the rest of the map. This would make same continent colonizing an absolute must, which is the behavior Wiz said he was trying to slow down (since it was far more efficient/powerful compared to overseas colonizing and/or war and/or dipplovassal).

With how much everyone is complaining they will probably rebalance the LA amounts in 1.9, but I wouldn't expect 0% LA for same continent colonizing because we would have wildly unbalanced Base Tax.

I tested this with one of the Siberian minors and they had a whopping 17 land force limits, with 22,000 manpower, as well as 10 ducats a month. Not exactly OP.

 

[Kyoumen]

I tested this with one of the Siberian minors and they had a whopping 17 land force limits, with 22,000 manpower, as well as 10 ducats a month. Not exactly OP.

Given the area they had colonised, why would it be worth way more than that?

More to the point, that's a pretty substantial buff to the force limits, manpower, and income of, say, Manchu or Korea, and it's one they don't have to fight for.

 

[Squirrelloid]

They added several hundred provinces to the areas in the game you guys are mentioning. Even if they had 1 BT each with 0% autonomy the colonized portions of Siberia/NA/SA would quickly overpower the rest of the map. This would make same continent colonizing an absolute must, which is the behavior Wiz said he was trying to slow down (since it was far more efficient/powerful compared to overseas colonizing and/or war and/or dipplovassal).

With how much everyone is complaining they will probably rebalance the LA amounts in 1.9, but I wouldn't expect 0% LA for same continent colonizing because we would have wildly unbalanced Base Tax.

Perfectly historical? See: USA rise from colonial backwater to world superpower. Brazil is arguably on its way to at least economic great power status. Mexico could easily be an economic great power if it could solve government structural issues. Part of the problem is of course that the world gets colonized far more extensively than it ever was in this time period. (Colonization beyond the Appalachians basically didn't happen until the very end of the game, and it was only just starting.)

 

[Ralepozozaxe]

Given the area they had colonised, why would it be worth way more than that?

More to the point, that's a pretty substantial buff to the force limits, manpower, and income of, say, Manchu or Korea, and it's one they don't have to fight for.

I'm not saying that it should be worth more than this, i'm saying with the current 50% local autonomy cap that They would be getting half of all this for owning about 40 or so provinces, as in 11 manpower and 5 ducats a month. A lot of work for little gain.

 

[Anreads]

Another crippling point is that Colonial nation doesn't suffer from this but natives do. Which the most damaging part is the trade boost they get over the nativ player. So not only do they get help by there home country if you attack them. But they are pretty soon gonna have an economy that outgrows uuuuuu. Natives and african nation need to be exempted from this rule by necessity

 

[Keioel]

Can we turn this off? Where is this located?

Edit: NVM found it

 

[WiseGreen]

Perfectly historical? See: USA rise from colonial backwater to world superpower. Brazil is arguably on its way to at least economic great power status. Mexico could easily be an economic great power if it could solve government structural issues. Part of the problem is of course that the world gets colonized far more extensively than it ever was in this time period. (Colonization beyond the Appalachians basically didn't happen until the very end of the game, and it was only just starting.)

"Government structural issues" = LA cap ;-)

I still think that it'd be more plausible if CNs didn't have the 50% cap only on their starting five provinces, and had it in any new province they acquired through colonization (performed either by tehir overlord or by themselves), but maybe it'd be only necessary if constantly outperform their historic counterparts.

BTW, are CNs more self-suficient now? Because one of the main complaints pre-1.8 was that they almost never colonized by themselves or fought their own wars semi-competently if you didn't babysit them. If they're doing a little better, this would be a good thing, no?

 

[LastSalian]

+1
First of all, AFAIR PDX didn't say anything about why they did this change, so I would assume it's a known bug or at least a limitation.

 

[Kyoumen]

+1
First of all, AFAIR PDX didn't say anything about why they did this change, so I would assume it's a known bug or at least a limitation.

Wiz has actually said exactly why he did this change (and that it was indeed his idea). Look in the various other threads about it.

 

[petertel123]

wasnt the large local autonomy of american colonies not already well enough represented with colonial nations? I thought that that was the entire purpose of introducing colonial nations

 

[Kyoumen]

I'm not saying that it should be worth more than this, i'm saying with the current 50% local autonomy cap that They would be getting half of all this for owning about 40 or so provinces, as in 11 manpower and 5 ducats a month. A lot of work for little gain.

The thing is, that's pretty much right. It would be a lot of work to control that area, for little gain. There's not much there, in terms of people or infrastructure, and there's no way any early coloniser can change that. It's much more lucrative to plot to move south into China instead - which is precisely what happened in real life.

Now, again, I agree with Wiz that eventually you should be able to exploit it better, but there's good reasons for why Siberia isn't very profitable to colonise in 1444.

 

[Squirrelloid]

"Government structural issues" = LA cap ;-)

Considering every state government in 1444, with the possible exception of England (although I'd wager in 1444 their government was still worse than modern Mexico's), was structurally less sound than Mexico's government today, that's not an argument for colonies having an LA floor, that's an argument for every nation having an LA floor, and tying reductions in LA floor to government type.

The current Mexican state's government problems have nothing to do with colonization as articulated by anyone in any of these threads, and everything to do with rampant government corruption. Some (and only some) of it is tied to legacies of colonization, but those legacies are the fact that it's the same 22 families who were given land by the spanish crown centuries ago that hold most of the political power, and that's only part of the problem. Similar problems, if not worse, were plaguing most of europe in 1444. The nepotism that is symptomatic of monarchies ensures it.

 

[Taterthomp2]

what bugs me is starting as a OPM...you can't exactly colonize the entire seaboard even in 1.7 ...and now its doubly impossible so its not like you would get all the basetax in the region.... and the basetax value is really low anyways compared to across the water (totally reasonable)

but whats not reasonable is

if you manage to befriend your european neighbors, and colonize 70 provinces. you will have 35.5 province value, manpower, force limit, (and these 35.5 provinces are already really weak)

i think that if you reform and westernize, then you should be able to use the 30 year modifier button to lower it, but it could also come with unrest as you urbanise the rural native areas which are still resistant to westernised way of life??? so in effect after westernization maybe 60 yeras later you can get it down to 0% using 25% lower buttons each 30 years, or SOMETHING like that....
that way late game youc an at least have benefit of as if you start from a later start date, (which the bonus disappear on btw!)

 

[LastSalian]

Wiz has actually said exactly why he did this change (and that it was indeed his idea). Look in the various other threads about it.

I missed that. Would you do me a favor a c&p that?

 

[Taterthomp2]

ALSO...
if anyone wondering...
in MOST provinces... i just check

you CANT AFFORD A SINGLE COLONY UPKEEP lol (north america)

and another thing bug me A LOT.

iroquois should have seneca.

they had 5 tribes. all 5 were part... butseneca is unoccupied in 1.8 (and i think took by huron in 1.7...been so long)

 

[CzokletMuss]

Can we turn this off? Where is this located?

Bump - where is this file?

 

[Kyoumen]

I missed that. Would you do me a favor a c&p that?

He's made a bunch of posts, so that's trickier than it sounds, but here's a few things he said on this topic in the 1.8 Patchnotes thread:

It is permanent, overseas provinces have 75% autonomy. The idea is to make the benefits of colonization more uniform instead of having your capital location make one type of colonization several times more effective than another despite costing the same.

It applies to everyone but CNs and former CNs. New world natives/Russia are compensated by the fact that there's a lot *more* to colonize.

I realize this is not going to be the most popular change, but the old system where Ming was a far better colonizer than say, England simply because Asia is full of uncolonized provinces and Europe isn't, was very strange. Colonization on the same continent was in terms of cost/benefit completely disproportional to every other form of territorial acquisition.

Trade Companies have been significantly boosted to compensate for the overseas trade power penalty.

It's not impossible that natives may need some special exception as CNs, though it's somewhat hard to define 'natives' in this case. I've testplayed with natives myself and have found that the much larger number of provinces means it's not as large a nerf as you might think for them.

And from the "Colonies: The New Taint" thread:

Sure, I can understand that, and I can agree with the need for a way to not have that province next to your capital for 200 years be 50% autonomous. Just give it a try before you say 'playing Aztecs is pointless now' is all I'm asking of this thread.

 

[StatikShocker]

Having a autonomy floor of fifty percent on newly settled lands actually makes pretty good sense. This is land that until recently has been unused and mostly unoccupied, heck even after you finish colonizing the province it only has a populations of 1000 people. You wanna take 1000 people drop them in the middle of some African wasteland with only ferocious hostile natives for company then tell me your surprised when they take day to day survival into their own hands? Further more from a gameplay perspective this makes a lot of sense, any player will be able to take over all of Africa as the Kongo or all of north america as <anyone who starts there> being able to monopolize the entire continent pre-AoW made you stupidly over powered when you sent up against the Europeans. Now that art of war has come out and there are literally hundreds more provinces to colonize you want there to be nothing to at least keep you at pre AoW power levels? I for one agree with the change, feel that it's historically accurate and believe that it makes good gameplay.

but. its still like that 400 years later.

playing Ajuuraan I colonize SOMALI SUNNI provinces and yet can't get autonomy below 50%. I have made ethiopia and stuff 0% autonomy, but a colony bordering my capital... naw 50% forever.

this change won't last, it is a ridiculous mistake.

I think what needs to happen is a change to colonization. Make a different mechanic for conquering an uncolonized province rather than settling it with 1000 of your people. It would retain its culture and religion but autonomy can be decreased to 0 like any other conquered province.

 

[Ralepozozaxe]

Tested to see how long it took Arapaho to get 4 ducats a month as income with no expenditures of any kind.

38 provinces, 9 troop limit, 15 manpower.

Edit: Arapaho has a cool flag by the way. This also doesn't account for how long this would take Arapaho in terms of time