Paradox Please Don’t Switch To Epic Games Store

[MartinSWE]

And to get back on topic: As a paradox player since EU1 and with 102 Games/DLC:s registered here then Imperator will be the last new title made or published by Paradox that I buy.

I'm exceptionally dissapointed at my until now favourite game developer/publisher and to see them bend the knee to Tencent/Epic feels awful.

 

[Zaister]

I'm exceptionally dissapointed at my until now favourite game developer/publisher and to see them bend the knee to Tencent/Epic feels awful.

Tencent also owns 5% of Paradox Interactive.

 

[Drake76]

Sorry Paradox, what set you apart from the others was your commitment to great games. You became a publicly traded company a fews years back and people worried. Then you stumbled with HOI4. Next you banged your head hard with Imperator.
This Epic game store is complete nonsense. There are major well reported privacy and technical issues and run by a group who are not our friends.
Your fans are trying to throw you a rope here for all our sake, but you seem intent on hanging yourself with it.
This is the result of being a public company. Not sure who got rich off this deal, but many of us are poorer.

 

[Black_Shade]

Sorry Paradox, what set you apart from the others was your commitment to great games. You became a public ally traded company a fews years back and people worried. Then you stumbled with HOI4. Next you banged your head hard with Imperator.
This Epic game store is complete nonsense. There are major well reported privacy and technical issues and run by a group who are not our friends.
Your fans are trying to throw you a rope here for all our sake, but you seem intent on hanging yourself with it.
This is the result of being a public company. Not sure who got rich off this deal, but many of us are poorer.

Yeah. I've purchased a lot of games from Paradox over the years, but I won't be buying them in the future. Sad to see a company completely sell out like this. I was pretty peeved over the dropping of Linux support, this move towards the epic store is the last straw for me.

Any game that gets an epic exclusive, even if it's for a temporary period, is a no purchase for me.

 

[Eelectrica]

It is exclusive to Epic on PC.

Only the pre-release version.
There's no way in hell this is going to be close to polished during its early access state.

It's a game thats barely been in development for 5 minutes.
They're getting money for old rope.

Release date is late 2020 and is coming then to all platforns. A delay wouldn't be a surprise either.

 

[Anonanon]

There is another elephant in the room I'm surprised noone has mentioned yet.

Paradox are not going "early access" because of testing "new exciting ways of distribution" as they claim. In August, Steam has introduced new publishing guidelines, forcing developers to publish games on Steam at max 30 days after general release, or they're no longer allowed on the platform. Declaring it an early access is nothing but a simple legal bypass most likely empowered by Epic to get around a limitation a game like Red Dead Redemption 2 had no chance of arguing with. Early Access = incomplete game = not affected by Steam's publishing rules. It's as simple as this.

Except previous announcements to pull the old switch-a-roo and go Epic exclusive have called it such a wide variety of titles that it would be a short discussion on plausibility and intent at both circuit or district court levels for example: Exclusive Release, Store Exclusive, Timed Exclusive, 1 year "Early Access".........

Epic's trend of poaching games from Steam is tremendous and I can say this "Early Access" has caught the attention of Steam.
Oddly my discussions has concluded with Steam's current stance as: (Steam) "cannot predict the future of the game Surviving the Aftermath".
So I will go back to lurking for another year.



Also I keep reading references to Steam being a Juggernaut, having a monopoly, and taking a massive 30% cut, etc.
Steam is one of the oldest surviving gaming store platforms and in earliest years it was Epicaly bad but spent money and developed their store.
Epic store is unchanged in 2 or 3 years now, anyways Steam has really polished its store, notifications, updates, features, etc, and especially its Marketing.

As for the 30% cut, that is industry standard according to IGN article: "Steam's 30% Cut Is Actually the Industry Standard"
https://ca.ign.com/articles/2019/10/07/report-steams-30-cut-is-actually-the-industry-standard
PC Games Summary: Steam 30%, 25% after $10M earned, 20% after $50M earned
Epic 12%, Humble 25%, GoG 30%, Microsoft Store 30%, mobile Google Play 30%, Apple App 30%



PS. For the 1 person (there's always 1) who wishes to argue against Epic doing any poaching here's a short incomplete list I've bashed together from one google search:
Yes there's probably a couple that aren't poached, but no doubt there's another 1 or 2 to take its place in this list. Ciao!

The Outer Worlds, Red Dead Redemption 2, A Knight's Quest, Afterparty, Airborne Kingdom, The Alto Collection, Ancestors: The Humankind Odyssey, Anno 1800, Arise: A Simple Story, Ashen, Atomicrops, Auto Chess, Bee Simulator, Beyond: Two Souls, Cardpocalypse, Castle Storm 2, Chivalry 2, Close to the Sun, Control, The Cycle, Dangerous Driving, Dauntless, Detroit: Become Human, The Division 2, Eternal Cylinder, Falcon Age, Fortnite, Genesis Alpha One, Ghost Recon Breakpoint, Ghostbusters: The Video Game Remastered, Gods & Monsters, Griftlands, Hades, Heavy Rain, Hello Neighbor: Hide and Seek, Industries Of Titan, John Wick Hex, Journey, Journey to the Savage Planet, Kine, Magic: The Gathering Arena, Maneater, Manifold Garden, No Straight Roads, Observation, Oddworld: Soulstorm, Omen of Sorrow, Ooblets, Operencia: The Stolen Sun, Outer Wilds, The Outer Worlds, Paranoia: Happiness is Mandatory, The Pathless, Phantom Brigade, Phoenix Point, ReadySet Heroes, Rebel Galaxy Outlaw, Rocket League, Rogue Company, RollerCoaster Tycoon Adventures, Rune II, Shenmue III, Satisfactory, The Settlers, Shakedown: Hawaii, The Sinking City, The Sojourn, Solar Ash Kingdom, Spellbreak, Super Meat Boy Forever, Superliminal, Surviving the Aftermath, Telltale's The Walking Dead: The Final Season, Tetris Effect, Twin Mirror, Unreal Tournament, Untitled Goose Game, The Walking Dead: The Telltale Definitive Series, Watch Dogs: Legion, Wattam, What the Golf?, World War Z, WRC 8, Yaga, Zombie Army 4: Dead War, Metro Exodus, MechWarrior 5: Mercenaries, Borderlands 3

 

[Eelectrica]

They poached Fortnite from themselves?

Sure their's been poaching going on. Outer worlds, Phoenix Point, even Bl3 are frutrating to me. I sure as won't be getting TWO or BL3 or anything else on Epic. It's bad enough I had to install that mess to get Phoenix Point which I backed day 1.


This isn't that though. Not even close.

 

[Djambo]

I would be shocked if you could find anyone in this thread defending Epic Exclusives.

Here you are.

You most likely won't find many more, because of the ridiculous "arguments" and "Respectfully Disagree" the mob is throwing at people with a scope bigger than their desk with the PC and the expectation of AAA-Games on constant sales for at most 10 €/$ 2 weeks after release.

Epic a shady business or Tencent is shareholder at Epic and Paradox: LMAO! Go get the Illuminati.

As a businessman myself I have to do what is best for my company and my employees. If I can get more and reliable money by working (temporarily and) exclusively with a wholesaler or customer, it is a sane and wise thing to do when considering all other available options.

As a gamer I personally honestly don't care. The shitstorm back in the day with Steam and Half-Life 2 was understandable, as this was a new thing for the gamers. But now in 2019 it is a rare thing to see new releases on DVD, everything is download-only and we have bunch of launchers for whatever games. Who gives a flying fart about non-available forums (for shitstorms), rating systems (for shitstorms) or other things Steam or any other launcher offers. The internet is not just for porn, you can use it for this stuff too.

If I want to play a game, it doesn't matter to me how I get it.

God, this EPIC = BAD hysteria is almost as stupid as gamergate was...

The gaming community is staggeringly full of self-entitlement...

Sums it up pretty good.

(I expect at least 10 Respectfully Disagree)

 

[FabulousFungi]

As a businessman myself I have to do what is best for my company and my employees.

And as a consumer myself, I act in my own interests. I have no wish to sacrifice economical benefits (regional prices, regular sales, steam market) or usability benefits (reviews, workshop and so on). However, trying to protect my own interests using available tools of public discourse apparently makes me entitled and wrong, while your position "I'll get the game where I want it, other people's needs and opinions do not concern me" makes you virtuous and right. Do I understand you correctly?

Who gives a flying fart about non-available forums (for shitstorms), rating systems (for shitstorms) or other things Steam or any other launcher offers

I would like to point out that you're literally arguing with people who are giving their, ahem, "flying farts". A very strong, vivid imagery, I must say.

 

[Badesumofu]

The arguments around the percentage that different stores take seem to mostly miss the key point that if Epic manages to carve out a strong market share, they will increase the cut they take anyway. This isn't some sort of situation where they're going to change the shape of the market to give developers a bigger cut. They're just running their store at a loss in order to try build market share.

Paradox can already sell their games on Steam and keep 100% of the revenue by the simple expedient of the Paradox Store. So that 30% isn't really 30% at all on average. And the 12% for the Epic Store isn't sustainable. There are no benefits to be found for consumers here and nothing more than some short term cash for developers. Although 88% of zero dollars is still less than 70% of $40 so maybe not even that.

 

[Sanny]

Totally disappointed, completely wrong direction for Paradox in my opinion. Just the start of worse things to come for future releases.

 

[Glen_Runciter]

It's not necessary to be so hostile and personal.

This sort of craven bullcrap is why people hate arguing with cultists.
Just read all the comments talking shit about Epic.
But any time someone reminds you people the realities, you get defensive.

 

[Glen_Runciter]

if Epic manages to carve out a strong market share, they will increase the cut they take anyway

You have absolutely zero proof of that. This is not arguing, what you people are doing, it's spreading the beliefs of a sect.

 

[MartinSWE]

You have absolutely zero proof of that. This is not arguing, what you people are doing, it's spreading the beliefs of a sect.

Tim Sweeney(Epic CEO) have admitted that the 12 % cut is unsustainable and that the 'payment upfront' is not gonna be a permanent thing. They are infact running the Store at a loss but thanks to money from Fortnite they can continue this until all competition have been crushed. It's really quite simple: Unless Epic plans on never expanding the set of features on their platform they will have to increase their cut or risk going bankrupt when the Fortnite craze dies of.

 

[CookieMonk]

So if you are opposed to "greed" why do you seem to be defending a firm which has, for years, insisted on taking more than twice the revenue cut from developers that EGS takes!?

I mean, sorry bro, but that just doesn't make sense to me. Steam are clearly the greediest of them all! 30% of developers per unit revenue for YEARS.

Along comes EGS, offering developers posh signing bonuses and revenue cuts as low as 5% and never higher than 12%, as well as free games to consumers and because they require those developers to sign exclusive distribution deals for a few years THEY are the greedy ones?

I don`t recall saying Steam Is good or not greedy and i stand by what i said, as i am sure you do too. Have a nice day!

 

[Anthropoid]

Tim Sweeney(Epic CEO) have admitted that the 12 % cut is unsustainable and that the 'payment upfront' is not gonna be a permanent thing. They are infact running the Store at a loss but thanks to money from Fortnite they can continue this until all competition have been crushed. It's really quite simple: Unless Epic plans on never expanding the set of features on their platform they will have to increase their cut or risk going bankrupt when the Fortnite craze dies of.

So? Can you suggest a better gambit to break into the market which Steam dominates?

 

[Anthropoid]

On the issue of the 30 % revenue it should be noted that Valves actual cut is closer to 20 % since 1 out of 3 games that are registered on Steam have not been sold through the Steam Store. Any Steam keys generated outside of the Steam Store nets Valve a 0 % cut making it a generous service by them to allow other key sellers to use their bandwidth and make money..

I'm interested to understand how you go from "1 out of 3 . . . not sold through Steam Store" to "close to 20%." Steam sells games on behalf of IP owners. They charge a per unit sold fee for that service. We could tally up this total of revenue shared and call it "Steam/Valves total take on game sales." How do games "registered on Steam" but not "sold through Steam" bite into Steam/Valve's total take on game sales?

In order for that to be the case one would have to show that: (1) the overhead of hosting those individual files was somehow so expensive it reduced their total revenue by one third!? Hard to imagine; or (2) Steam is allowing third parties to sell games and then register them on their servers (thus allowing download keys from their servers and 'support' to the user) even though it is costing them one third of their revenue!? Impossible to believe.

Steam's business model is one primarily of connectivity and interactivity. Each user they register because the user purchased a game(s) from a humble-bundle or some other third party deal is another source of revenue for them. I'm sure their finance guys did the math, and rechecked it multiple times. In the absence of actual financials, which none of us are going to put our hands on, I'm going to dismiss your point as a 'nice try' smoke and mirrors pot shot. Sorry, but I don't buy it.

Their standard fee is 30%. This is what everyone says, though the people who actually know are probably NDA bound not to say one way or another. It is a major talking point in all these discussions and I have never seen a Steam shill or Valvelet spokesperson step forward to provide any sort of irrefutable evidence based claim to the contrary. So the reasonable conclusion is: yep, they really do charge 30%. Their total profit margin is likely multiplied by the fact that they work with other retailers to allow registration of games sold through other distributions, otherwise why would they do it?

 

[Panzergruppe]

In other news, Surviving Mars is the next give-away game on Epic Games Store.

 

[markjharris8]

So? Can you suggest a better gambit to break into the market which Steam dominates?

Instead of Epic throwing millions of dollars at publishers, what if they invested that money in their own development team. Think of what they could achieve if they did thing, building up an infrastructure and launcher for their store. With this kind of investment they could have a launcher/store that contained more features and services than any rival. This coupled with suitable regional and competitive pricing could put them in the lead for the goto gaming store on PC. The other advantage... it would give Steam, along with GOG, Uplay, Origin, etc... something to work for and we will hopefully see more advancement in their stores/launchers. After all, competition is good.

But unfortunately Epic doesn't seem to care about gamers and providing us a good service.

 

[markjharris8]

In other news, Surviving Mars is the next give-away game on Epic Games Store.

In addition, Surviving Mars, Cities: Skylines and Imperator: Rome are all on the Xbox Game Pass for PC.