It would be nice if the next session Jake can have a look at how much trade power and trade value Fido has in each trade node, and how much he is steering downstream.
Paradox Office Multiplayer Campaign VI
- Thread starter BjornB
- Start date
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When Jake was ill, BjornB & Mr. Nibbles talked about that in stream.
Thanks for that, missed that Stream... I like the commenting of those two. So much better than Jake.
......too obvious ?
......too obvious ?
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Looking at the gigantic mercenary infantry & artillery only stacks of Prussia, I do hope that the devs will make manpower a bit more of a factor in these later game encounters and boosts cavalry a bit more.
Cavalry remained one of the main damage dealers on the field (when the enemy was retreating) until well after the Napoleonic wars. Napoleon's 1814 campaign, for example, was seriously troubled by the lack of good war horses as they had all died in Russia the year before.
Cavalry remained one of the main damage dealers on the field (when the enemy was retreating) until well after the Napoleonic wars. Napoleon's 1814 campaign, for example, was seriously troubled by the lack of good war horses as they had all died in Russia the year before.
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You do realize that StarNaN was the aggressor in most of the wars he has been in, right?
Morocco is a fairly big naval power iirc. Which was really needing in the Ottoman + Ethiopia war vs. PLC + Prussia + Spain + I think BurgundyHow is this a hugbox? Burgundy + Commonwealth + Prussia + Spain vs Britain + France + Ethiopia + Portugal + Mughals + Ottomans
4 vs 6 with the two strongest powers on the former side.
Luba, Songhai, and Morroco barely count in terms of combat. They have insignificant forces that are woefully outmatched. Scandinavia is clearly a third party with no real allies. Honestly they are the only ones not getting hugged by anyone at this point. Prussia can clearly solo damn near half the world. It isn't entirely player skill (not saying Starnan is anything short of a brilliant player). The Prussian army is simply that much better. The Prussian land is simply that much more developed. The Prussian wall of mountain forts is simply that much more impenetrable.
Honestly I think Starnan has gotten a bit salty as he realizes the game is basically up. He will negotiate anything to only have to fight one front. He is upset he is surrounded by basically infinite armies. He sees only one way to win. Diplomacy. So long as Britain, France, Portugal, Ottomans, Mughals, and Ethiopia remain together he is screwed.
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Britain has no reason to switch sides. He is an impenetrable fortress so long as Prussians don't learn to march on water.
France is permanent enemies with Prussia. There can only be one Daniel.
Ethiopia was promised a VC from Ottomans. So long as this is allotted the Prussians and Commonwealth have nothing to offer in trade. He has nothing to gain by switching sides even if he has nothing to lose. Spite might be the only X factor here. However neutrality is totally possible once he gets his card. He will most likely shadow Groogy's move.
Portugal wants Spanish land. Portugal will subsidize anyone so long as they give Portugal land to profit off of. Portugal wouldn't think twice about handing a million gold to Prussia and Commonwealth. They simply have no reason to do so. Maybe Spain could simply give Portugal the land in exchange for Portugal peacing out, reducing war subsidies, and paying Spain and its allies a fair bit of coin? I don't know but this seems to at least be a plausible option.
Mughals might be willing to straight up switch sides. Why would they care who wins? Commonwealth has land. They want land. There would also be less map gore if Siberia turned green. Bribes go a long way at this stage of the game and I don't think Commonwealth can recover at this point anyways.
The Ottomans want their land back. Groogy is not dumb. He uses at least 4% of his brain and knows that if he splits the alliance he will be War Target #2. He needs to stay in the fight at least until the last stream. 1790's he could drop back, collect score, settle debts, and take up a defensive stance assuming he attains his heartland and forgives its trespassers.
Malwa is basically like[
3k, on Liege.
Cavalry remains the strongest shock damage dealer in the game. They're a bit expensive and infantry still pack a decent punch for shock + fire later in the game is why cav isn't seen that much from western nations at least. I think cav could see a bit of a buff, but realistically the lack of building cav right now is more about the state of manpower than the state of cav. You need the mercs for your front line and you need the manpower for your backline. Cav you pay out the nose for as well as limiting your front line by making them as mercs or you constantly damage your manpower supply by building cav.
Morocco's navy cant possibly tip the scales against Britain/Portugal.
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Yes. Though i would say one of the last wars he declared, he was not the aggressor. I'll use another prussian's quote to get the point across.
"Hostilities should not be confused with aggression. The one who makes the first plan to attack his neighbor breaks the engagements that he has under taken for the peace, he plots, he conspires; this is in what true aggression consists. The one who has learned of it and does not take the initiative is a coward; the one who foresees the plan of his enemy commits the first hostilities,(meaning they attack) but he is not the aggressor."
he has been aggressive most of the game. but one of the last wars he declared, it looked like they were about to attack anyways.(from my pov) better to attack then while they are not 100% ready. so in that war, i would not say he was the aggressor. but rather the hugbox. he just initiated the fight.
and wasn't the spanish fleet already outnumbered by the ottoman-ethopian fleet, but the spanish upgraded their ships so they were outgunning the combined fleet?
anyways, i am curious as to what peace if any was made in the last week.(and if they will put it on paper again.)
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Iam not sure i can agree with that. Many of the last wars had been about victory-cards or retaking them/provinces and iam sure that starnan wouldve attacked anyway like he did with venice because thats the way he plays.. very agressive.. and if you follow your own argumentation you could eve say that starnan provoked the first coalition-wars against him as well by breaking the agreements he had with plc, so stop victimizing him 
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as for the cav.. or lacking of them in the prussian-army.. dont forget to put thinks like infanty-combat-ability ideas/tradition into equation as well, still i agree cav needs a little buff.
.as for the cav.. or lacking of them in the prussian-army.. dont forget to put thinks like infanty-combat-ability ideas/tradition into equation as well, still i agree cav needs a little buff.
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i wasn't excusing his very aggressive play style earlier in the game. in those cases, he was the clear aggressor.Iam not sure i can agree with that. Many of the last wars had been about victory-cards or retaking them/provinces and iam sure that starnan wouldve attacked anyway like he did with venice because thats the way he plays.. very agressive.. and if you follow your own argumentation you could eve say that starnan provoked the first coalition-wars against him as well by breaking the agreements he had with plc, so stop victimizing him
as for the cav.. or lacking of them in the prussian-army.. dont forget to put thinks like infanty-combat-ability ideas/tradition into equation as well, still i agree cav needs a little buff.
(and not honoring agreements with CW came back to bite him. that was on him for that. i didn't feel bad at all for him about that)one of the last "offensive" wars he took, i felt he was going to be attacked before he declared it. I am sure he/his allies did as well which is why i mentioned the above. it was in that war the above quote was suppose to be about. and the truce break kinda reinforces the idea they wanted to kill him which to me makes the above quote correct.
anyways, i am anti hugbox. doesn't matter who is in it. next time it could be starnan in it and someone else will be ganked. as soon as i see one, i personally want everyone else to destroy it.(especially if it is made up of the strongest powers) just a personal preference. and i was hoping for a more even truly global war last time, so it was kinda disappointing to see everyone against CW, Pruss, spain, and burgundy.(i saw malwa rent out troops as well to portugal) nonetheless, as starnan says, were you not entertained? i was.
and yea, you are right. things like CA are important in what you make your armies out of. CW could go more cav heavy if they get their cav CA up to 50%.(i did in my pol/CW games) but as a whole, i do feel cav in the late game are underwhelming. in the early game, they are very strong. i like that fire becomes more dominate as the game goes on, but i would still like to see shock with plenty of cav be very strong. just don't overdue it.
how long it takes for forts to siege is another issue imo but idk if others agree.(could make siege ticks faster with mil tech.)
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Iam not sure i can agree with that. Many of the last wars had been about victory-cards or retaking them/provinces and iam sure that starnan wouldve attacked anyway like he did with venice because thats the way he plays.. very agressive.. and if you follow your own argumentation you could eve say that starnan provoked the first coalition-wars against him as well by breaking the agreements he had with plc, so stop victimizing him
as for the cav.. or lacking of them in the prussian-army.. dont forget to put thinks like infanty-combat-ability ideas/tradition into equation as well, still i agree cav needs a little buff.
i wasn't excusing his very aggressive play style earlier in the game. in those cases, he was the clear aggressor.
one of the last "offensive" wars he took, i felt he was going to be attacked before he declared it. I am sure he/his allies did as well which is why i mentioned the above. it was in that war the above quote was suppose to be about. and the truce break kinda reinforces the idea they wanted to kill him which to me makes the above quote correct.
anyways, i am anti hugbox. doesn't matter who is in it. next time it could be starnan in it and someone else will be ganked. as soon as i see one, i personally want everyone else to destroy it.(especially if it is made up of the strongest powers) just a personal preference. and i was hoping for a more even truly global war last time, so it was kinda disappointing to see everyone against CW, Pruss, spain, and burgundy.(i saw malwa rent out troops as well to portugal) nonetheless, as starnan says, were you not entertained? i was.
and yea, you are right. things like CA are important in what you make your armies out of. CW could go more cav heavy if they get their cav CA up to 50%.(i did in my pol/CW games) but as a whole, i do feel cav in the late game are underwhelming. in the early game, they are very strong. i like that fire becomes more dominate as the game goes on, but i would still like to see shock with plenty of cav be very strong. just don't overdue it.
how long it takes for forts to siege is another issue imo but idk if others agree.(could make siege ticks faster with mil tech.)
For Cav - biggest issue is that Aristocratic is supposed to be THE cav idea group and it gives a whopping 5% cav combat ability... Nations that have decent Cav Combat ability NIs are able to make cav pack a heavier punch than artillery, but this is also because they're able to field a decent amount of cav to be their front line. Cav are better front liners than infantry so long as you don't go under the limit (Overall better pips than infantry, fire pips aren't that much behind in the late game). Again, the problem becomes cost and manpower. As infantry gets better and fire phase begins to matter and then pulls on par with shock, cav's advantage shrinks and shrinks making them not really worth the additional cost or manpower. I still believe in having a decent amount of cav for non-western nations. Still keep double the infantry because inf die so fast unless you're horde, then 100% cav if you can afford it.
Level 8 forts would/do take forever and a day to siege without decent siege generals. Overall, siege pips are the most desired pips by a lot of the better players at the game since you can avoid battles with fast sieges.
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####################
## STATS FOR MP ###
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Current Score
- Ming 22743 (+6.26)
- Ethiopia 18327 (+8.14)
- Great Britain 15841 (+7.61)
- Germany 14705 (+9.91)
- Ottomans 12637 (+2.30)
- Portugal 12590 (+8.45)
- Malwa 11057 (+5.34)
- France 10395 (+6.76)
- Spain 5446 (+0.49)
- Revolutionary Commonwealth 4712 (+7.61)
- Brunei 2678 (+3.38)
- Songhai 2268 (+0.99)
- Morocco 1761 (+1.26)
- Scandinavia 1286 (+0.00)
- Mughals 1051 (+0.00)
- Pasai 260 (+0.00)
- Brandenburg 254 (+0.00)
- Brittany 72 (+0.00)
- The Palatinate 47 (+0.00)
- Dai Viet 37 (+0.00)
- Ming 2764
- Germany 2534
- Malwa 1940
- Revolutionary Commonwealth 1766
- France 1664
- Ethiopia 1648
- Ottomans 1449
- Great Britain 1325
- Portugal 1001
- Songhai 902
- Mughals 811
- Spain 754
- Pasai 707
- Brunei 701
- Thirteen Colonies 636
- Morocco 635
- Scandinavia 527
- Luba 477
- Burgundy 448
- Terre Australe 425
- Portugal 1064.60
- Germany 447.63
- France 436.90
- Great Britain 362.51
- Ethiopia 340.16
- Ming 323.32
- Malwa 309.52
- Spain 230.78
- Ottomans 196.30
- Morocco 182.85
- Revolutionary Commonwealth 177.04
- Brunei 150.43
- Burgundy 149.34
- Scandinavia 130.37
- Songhai 114.75
- Mughals 111.96
- Pasai 94.86
- Thirteen Colonies 77.77
- West Indies 58.04
- Luba 51.99
- Germany 375k
- Ming 369k
- Malwa 309k
- France 283k
- Ethiopia 259k
- Revolutionary Commonwealth 254k
- Ottomans 211k
- Great Britain 164k
- Songhai 148k
- Mughals 147k
- Pasai 127k
- Spain 111k
- Scandinavia 106k
- Burgundy 96,296
- Thirteen Colonies 84,414
- Brunei 74,421
- Luba 72,991
- Terre Australe 61,435
- Morocco 61,249
- New Lancashire 56,010
- Germany 397k
- France 382k
- Ethiopia 344k
- Malwa 311k
- Revolutionary Commonwealth 311k
- Ottomans 274k
- Ming 263k
- Morocco 118k
- Thirteen Colonies 114k
- Brunei 111k
- Great Britain 99,311
- Spain 96,000
- Burgundy 93,899
- Scandinavia 91,760
- Mughals 87,396
- Pasai 83,722
- Songhai 82,003
- New Lancashire 74,000
- Portugal 71,000
- Luba 62,000
- Portugal 147/0
- Great Britain 112/0
- Ethiopia 99/0
- Ming 44/54
- Germany 84/0
- Morocco 54/4
- Brunei 43/0
- France 38/0
- Ottomans 33/1
- Malwa 32/0
- Spain 28/0
- Pasai 12/0
- Madagascan Trade Ci 4/0
- New Lancashire 3/0
- Breton Canada 3/0
- Brittany 3/0
- Scandinavia 2/0
- Praefectura Venetiola 2/0
- Brandenburg 0/1
- Praefecturum Luccumium 1/0
- Great Britain 319
- Brunei 167
- Portugal 107
- France 104
- Ming 98
- Ethiopia 97
- Spain 93
- Morocco 67
- Thirteen Colonies 38
- New Lancashire 30
- West Indies 30
- Spanish Peru 28
- Siak 28
- Breton Canada 25
- Praefectura Mahometana 25
- Spanish La Plata 23
- Terre Australe 23
- Dai Viet 21
- Japan 20
- Algarve 18
- Brunei 93
- France 92
- Ming 92
- Great Britain 91
- Spain 91
- Morocco 91
- West Indies 91
- Siak 91
- Japan 91
- Moldavia 91
- Brandenburg 91
- Burgundy 91
- Portugal 90
- Ethiopia 90
- Spanish La Plata 90
- Pasai 90
- Newfoundland 90
- Sulu 90
- Germany 90
- Mughals 90
- Ming 2764
- Germany 2578
- Great Britain 2175
- Malwa 1940
- France 1914
- Ethiopia 1886
- Revolutionary Commonwealth 1816
- Ottomans 1746
[~]Spain 1248
[~]Portugal 1001
[~]Songhai 962
[~]Mughals 826
[~]Morocco 763
[~]Brunei 725
[~]Pasai 707
[~]Scandinavia 527
[~]Burgundy 460
[~]Dai Viet 120
[~]Brittany 97
[~]Japan 65
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- Dec 14, 1999
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Embarrasing, sloppy and stupid.
Little did i know that portugal funded burgundy completely in that war.
Little did i know that portugal funded burgundy completely in that war.
Look, all I want is for that Austrian/Prussian/German unit stuck in eastern Anatolia to make it home.
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I think that was one of the most action-packed sessions so far. I really enjoyed watching! I think all the players have done a great job at keeping the end-game dynamic and unpredictable.
Why doesn't Portugal simply DOW Spain themselves? Surely with their crazy ducats they could simply spam mercs and go over the force limit to crush spain...
Why doesn't Portugal simply DOW Spain themselves? Surely with their crazy ducats they could simply spam mercs and go over the force limit to crush spain...
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Spain is allied with Germany.
This session was fine ! Pretty saddening that France didn't put on much of a fight against Prussia, didn't try to build all it's manpower and go over force limit, try to attack Starnan in the Austrian mountain forts, or regroup his army with england.
The revenge against the ottomans is on point for Germany who successfully destroyed from the inside the entire enemy alliance and propelled himself at the top of the charts, that's really great diplo.
I still believe that France should have gone revolutionnary as soon as possible, that would def have allowed him to stand up against Prussia, hopefully the german troops are less effective without the militarisation.
You shouldn't have half assed the burgundian invasion in the first place, you had 60k sitting at home that could have made a difference ! But Alas, since Germany and France are in a common war, perhaps France can declare against Burgundy too and destroy that tentacle of strategical disadvantage they have on him.
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I wonder if people see the opportunity of ruining Johan there. Since a lot of people are competing for the first 3 spots here, I wouldn't be surprised if Burgundy suddenly gets new allies helping him against GB, as long as they remove his taken VC.
Wiz might have to get some loans/corruption to instantly spam lvl 8 forts just to slow the invaders down. That's all he has to do to keep his score ticking up.
I would also actually love it if Portugal will manage to get his hands on the other VC's and surprise everyone by taking 1st place (just top 3 would be more likely). It's probably very unlikely and they might have to break a truce for it, but it would be possible. With everyone occupied I bet no one would stop him.
My predicted top 3:
- Ethiopia
- Germany
- Portugal
Wiz might have to get some loans/corruption to instantly spam lvl 8 forts just to slow the invaders down. That's all he has to do to keep his score ticking up.
I would also actually love it if Portugal will manage to get his hands on the other VC's and surprise everyone by taking 1st place (just top 3 would be more likely). It's probably very unlikely and they might have to break a truce for it, but it would be possible. With everyone occupied I bet no one would stop him.
My predicted top 3:
- Ethiopia
- Germany
- Portugal
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It surely can't be over yet for you. You could always offer Portugal direct military aid against Spain for their VCs if they cut off Burgundy's funding. Subsidies for PLC for military help could be a thing as well as offering Z most of Scandinavia (not the entire VC he has on you however) in exchange for Swedish troops.
I also was rather disappointed that they peaced out of the war fairly quickly. Not sure if it was due to Stab hits or what, but after Burgundy went out they should have been able to win the war.
He still has the prussian government, Militarization is still in place.
@Da9L While I'm not going to argue about Prussia being OP or not, do keep in mind that you would have won a lot of those battles if Burgundy didn't jump in with an extra 60-80k troops. You were winning most of the battles until numbers overwhelmed you and that literally didn't happen until Burgundy jumped in.
Overall though, this has been a very interesting end game. Going to give major props to @StarNaN for his role in creating this mayhem. These games were usually decided by the end due to diplomacy > all kind of mentality. By essentially giving up his diplomacy early and mid game, he managed to turn around an excellent diplomatic game at the end. StarNaN was able to create tension between France and Ottomans/Ethiopia by getting Wiz to peace out of the war due to Wiz's trophy ego causing a large amount of friction between France + Ottomans/Ethiopia. And he did this all while benefiting himself immensely.
That said, the real salt master at the end of today seemed to be Fido which surprised me. He seemed a mixture of passive-aggressive and bitterness over what seems to be him not getting top 3 and is now venting it all at the end in the form of Burgundy subsidies for Johan's privateering and bullying all game. Otherwise he's just been tanking his own economy to give huge amounts of war reps to the people who have helped him all game in their agreements for his massive cash stack. Since I know what I type can occasionally come off different than intended, just want to say this isn't an attack or anything on you Fido, I think you've done great this campaign in an unorthodox way and I'm honestly split between you, Ihki, and Da9l for my vote. That said, I'll have to give Carsten my vote if he counts in this at all since I feel like he was snubbed really hard this time around.
Speaking of that @DDRJake - the 4th trophy has been rather obvious for awhile. You kept hinting at it for awhile now. That said, I'm not sure if it was obvious or not in general or because in a non-creepy/stalker kind of way I've been watching you for over 2 years now and am able to read you a bit better as a result
. On a small tangent, I do miss the Jake of old from time to time with the exploit reveals and the trophy lead up did remind me of them a bit. Oh, what ever happened to @grekulf ? Abducted to a new project and unable to play the MP sessions? Having him, Carsten, Jake, and StarNaN in the same game placed near each other would be rather interesting I'd think
. That said, finding a replacement for Jake as observer is a rather tall task since you guys have a handful of people who have the depth of eu4 knowledge let alone being able to be a good commentator.Starnan didnt loose the militarisation of his goverment and iam not sure if you can claim that it was Starnan who destroyed the Alliance from within. i think it is more propable that wiz and groogy saw this as their best chance to get france out of the top 3, wich obviosly worked very well.
and altough iam also sad that Da9l just gave up, i think it was a sound choice considering the circumstances. Starnan had already more development last session, without allys ( sorry but considering that 2/3 of johans troops where in england and another third wasnt moving from the netherlands its clear to me that he only "joined" the war because of burgundy) , still weakened from the last war ( yes i know his own fault for trucebreaking ) and with the militarisation of prussia the numbers where against and even i dont belive that the skillgab between Da9l and Starnan is big enough for Da9l to win against such odds.
so he did the most sound thing and allied prussia to get revenge. i just wish that spain wouldve been stubborn and kept the provinces for himself so wiz and groogy would have to either trucebreak or face the wrath of the dukats.
all in all things played out how i presumed they would, just a session earlier than i tought and with england not in a war against france... yet!
And with Da9l now officially out the race i hope for starnan to take a trophy
.