Paradox Office Multiplayer Campaign V

[vfmikey]

Question is if they would be better off moving capital to Asia or Africa instead of Europe ^^

He'd have to switch culture and form Malaya, that's probably the only way, no? I don't see that happening

Or loosing all the european land to Castille on purpose.

 

[Viperswhip]

Question is if they would be better off moving capital to Asia or Africa instead of Europe ^^

Can you without losing all but one province in Europe?

 

[oskar-kar]

Well, this has become just not fun. It's bound to happen in SP games when you have managed to surpass any possible opposition, but for this to happen in an MP that is supposed to showcase a feature designed to break hugboxes, let's just say it is a bit underwhelming. A lot, rather. Just echo what has been expressed above: other than the top 3, only Bohemia and Burgundy have a reason to go against Fritaly (for VC reasons basically), although it is only natural that they would remain within their previous power blocks. It's just not fun, however, for the spectators.

The first war we saw, I reckon was as exciting as the First Anti-Fritalian Coalition, due to the balance of forces and the sustained notable army management. The second has just shown that this campaign has nothing more for us to see, however. Here was a brilliant chance for everyone to just juggle their way into becoming minor power-shifting blocs. I'm of the solid opinion that Mamluks-Ming support for the Fritalians could have been enough, yet at the same time probably a death sentence for the Ming. All in all, the game has lost the excitement and the fun because it has become all too predictable: because players refuse to be unpredictable anymore.

I've been watching avery Dev Multi campaign and personally I think that VC have changed multiplayer a lot. I don't really understand what hugboxes are you talking about, the only one I can think of is Mughals and Bahmanis, maybe Fritaly (but they were not together from the start). I wouldn't call British Alliance a hugbox, as Fritaly were too strong to be cut down to size by smaller alliances. Next thing is that British Alliance was only together against Fritaly, as in other wars they were fighting each other. In my opinion there was a lot of shifting between top places and alliances in this campaign. Just take a look at older ones (or non-dev multiplayer sessions when there was no VC), from start to the end the world was always divided between two blocks, which was really boring compared to VC campaign.

Next thing, why only Bohemia and Burgundy had a reason to go against Fritaly? If Italy would be left without second coalition they would easily claim top 3 with those VC. Also, why do you think that second coalition shown that there is nothing more to see? I think that second coalition was neccessery (from coalition members point of view) as after losing first coalition war, Fritaly in one short strike took everything back (exchanging some of french coast for middle Germany from Bohemia). In my opinion the second coalition shown that first coalition war ended with too soft peace terms as France and Italy were able to crush avery neighbour without shifting some of their alliances.

The coalition goal should have been cutting Fritaly down to size so they would be forced to change their tactics (for example ally with somebody else) to get back on track, not just wait some time and grab everything back.

 

[Frogbait]

I've been watching avery Dev Multi campaign and personally I think that VC have changed multiplayer a lot. I don't really understand what hugboxes are you talking about, the only one I can think of is Mughals and Bahmanis, maybe Fritaly (but they were not together from the start). I wouldn't call British Alliance a hugbox, as Fritaly were too strong to be cut down to size by smaller alliances. Next thing is that British Alliance was only together against Fritaly, as in other wars they were fighting each other. In my opinion there was a lot of shifting between top places and alliances in this campaign. Just take a look at older ones (or non-dev multiplayer sessions when there was no VC), from start to the end the world was always divided between two blocks, which was really boring compared to VC campaign.

Next thing, why only Bohemia and Burgundy had a reason to go against Fritaly? If Italy would be left without second coalition they would easily claim top 3 with those VC. Also, why do you think that second coalition shown that there is nothing more to see? I think that second coalition was neccessery (from coalition members point of view) as after losing first coalition war, Fritaly in one short strike took everything back (exchanging some of french coast for middle Germany from Bohemia). In my opinion the second coalition shown that first coalition war ended with too soft peace terms as France and Italy were able to crush avery neighbour without shifting some of their alliances.

The coalition goal should have been cutting Fritaly down to size so they would be forced to change their tactics (for example ally with somebody else) to get back on track, not just wait some time and grab everything back.

You know who is just as powerful of an alliance as Fritaly? Bahghals. Probably even more powerful tbh. Italy would have struggled really, really hard to break into the top 3 if they kept their VCs they just lost again. It's just very frustrating to see Bahmanis get 1st for doing pretty much nothing but SP and getting massively rewarded for it via accumulated score, Mughuls getting Top 3 just from VC trading, and GB getting top 3 for using blobmanis to gain 7,000 VC points for free.

Maybe the devs will spice things up next time, but I'm more than a bit skeptical. It was also super abusive that Fritaly got an even bigger coalition of players when one of their two allies was in AI hands. Oh well, hopefully with the changes Johan mentioned we'll see it be even more fun next campaign and not end in a disgusting way like this one is shaped out to end

Thanks again Devs for putting these on for us!

 

[Viperswhip]

I'd like alliance voice chat, that'd mess things up.

 

[oskar-kar]

You know who is just as powerful of an alliance as Fritaly? Bahghals. Probably even more powerful tbh. Italy would have struggled really, really hard to break into the top 3 if they kept their VCs they just lost again. It's just very frustrating to see Bahmanis get 1st for doing pretty much nothing but SP and getting massively rewarded for it via accumulated score, Mughuls getting Top 3 just from VC trading, and GB getting top 3 for using blobmanis to gain 7,000 VC points for free.

Maybe the devs will spice things up next time, but I'm more than a bit skeptical. It was also super abusive that Fritaly got an even bigger coalition of players when one of their two allies was in AI hands. Oh well, hopefully with the changes Johan mentioned we'll see it be even more fun next campaign and not end in a disgusting way like this one is shaped out to end

Thanks again Devs for putting these on for us!

Maybe Mughals and Bahmanis are together stronger than Fritaly, but nobody is preventing anyone from making coalition against them. It's devs choice that they choose to cut down to size Fritaly rather than Bahmanis and Mughals. I would say that if there was more in-game time then there would be a coalition against Mughals and Bahmanis. Great Britain made a good decision in the right time, they made coalition against top 2 players late so there is no time to arrange a coalition against them being in top 3.

 

[JoanK]

I agree that we've seen great swings and shifts in alliance systems along the game, perhaps hugbox is not the best word to describe it, but the second coalition was completely unnecessary as Italy would still have needed to dispossess GB or Mughals of at least one VC to get into the top 3. This speaks to StarNan's diplomatic abilities, really. Even if Da9l is emotional about it and this a tad bit unrealiable, it is unquestionable that GB's triumph has been weaving these massive alliances that have done a good deal of the job for them. Their alliances are their only strength, aside from the navy, but that one is a given. Most impressive is keeping the alliance together when several of its members have a clear interest against it: Russia's VC on Mughals, Ming's rightful clay in filthy Anglo-Bahmani lands, mostly. This is not to say that they should help the Fritalians because of that. It could easily lead to disaster for both, especially the Ming. Also noteworthy is Mamlukian neutrality. There is little doubt for me that a Fritaly+Mamluks+Russia+Ming could thrash the British hugbox.

Also, your argument of lack of time is contemptible. Italy had been cut down to size in the previous session. It only needed to be cut down again because an attempt to cut them down further for no apparent reason failed spectacularly and backfired in every participant's face. It was Groogy, R-Lazer, TheLetterZ and Rufo's decision to give away the game to the leading trio. Of course Bahmanis would still very likely hold #1, but Mughals and GB could have been taken down. When I say there is nothing left for us to see I mean that this session, with its two completely redundant coalitions against Fritaly, demonstrated that the first coalition has become a more permanent alliance system, unlikely to either change or, if changed, having an effect on the scoreboard. The devs effectively decided to kill the campaign one session too early.

 

[Serpent]

They still have one more chance to make the game interesting. I hope they take it.

 

[Groogy]

"Napoleon claimed he could not be stopped because he spent 30 000 lives a month. What does that make me who spend double that amount a month?" - Tsar Fyodor II von Hapsburg

 

[Da9L]

In the Land of Paradoxes in the Fires of Great Britain, the dark lord of Britain forged in secret a master alliance to control all others.
Into this alliance he poured his cruelty, his malice and his will to dominate all life. One alliance to rule them all.
One by one the free lands of Universales fell to the power of his diplomacy.
But there was some who resisted.
A last alliance of French and Italians marched against the Armies of Britain and on the slopes of Burgundy they (will be fighting) fought for the freedom of Universales!

Don't miss the exciting ending next time, after the mp!

 

[Groogy]

Roland be like "They see me rolling, they hatin'"

 

[Chaingun]

My exciting finale: Select province in Declare War dialog, CTD.

At least better than Burgundy who didn't get into the game.

Some things to fix tomorrow ;_;

 

[xazaz]

So a long and thanks for all the miss-clicks!

 

[FieldMedic]

Excellent campaign . I'm looking forward to the next one! Congratulations to the winners!

 

[ForzaA]

So along and thanks for all the miss-clicks!

I'm sorry, did the sound of Mamlukean coins distract you?

 

[Frogbait]

Nice finish. Great way to welcome Starnan aboard

Pls announce date of next MP campaign when you guys know!

Thanks once again for putting these on. The after stream talks gave it a lot of personality. Would be great to see more people participate in them

 

[yonaz]

Step 1 = Die with poland
Step 2 = Play single player country
Step 3 = Win

GG well played
I wanna thank Mughals, GB and the Victory Card system.

I guess something has to be done with it to make it work better.

 

[CassCD]

Well, I'm not going to lie. I greatly enjoyed the humiliation of the top 3, regardless of the outcome in score.

France and Italy are the winners of this game in spirit, no one else fought harder. So much thanks to Russia and the Mamlukes for making their final choice and making this an epic finish.

 

[funguide]

In the finale mamluks and bahamanis took very bad fights with -2 penalty. Also everyone brought too many cannons, in those massive 150 vs 200 battles having more than 25 cannons doesn't serve anyone. Next time have tons of infantry for such fights.

Also the mughals and bahamanis could have taken more fights in the mountains and bled groogy dry. No one used scorched earth. That "untappable max manpower" surely would have sunk.

 

[ForzaA]

In the finale mamluks and bahamanis took very bad fights with -2 penalty.

Yeah, more than I would've liked to.. It's a bit of a tradeoff.. If you can take out that leaderless 30k before it gets reinforced (that happened a few times too) it's a great deal.. You get the defensive bonus after having taken out 30k.
If you don't, well.. not exactly ideal.

Also everyone brought too many cannons, in those massive 150 vs 200 battles having more than 25 cannons doesn't serve anyone. Next time have tons of infantry for such fights.

Always a trade-off between independently useful stacks and optimal stacks in pile-ups. Given the wide range of fronts I expected I MIGHT be fighting (as it turns out, it was reasonably restricted) I opted for independence as much as possible. Dedicated mercenary infantry stacks getting rolled didn't help..