Paradox obsessed with unhappiness, factions and rebellions once again...
- Thread starter DrZoidberg
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When taking over primitive species, a bugbear I find is lacking the correct tech to clear tile blockers. Then again, I may be invading too early.
If you're invading a primitive species with a similar biosphere preference, you might be able to resettle some pops after reaching 5 pops and building the level admin building which allows resettlement (Your policies must allow resettling as well).
If you're invading a primitive species with a similar biosphere preference, you might be able to resettle some pops after reaching 5 pops and building the level admin building which allows resettlement (Your policies must allow resettling as well).
internal politics is one of the few standout features of stellaris and other paradox games, the devs should enhance the options AND outcomes (negative & positive) for the factions. certainly NOT removing this feature!
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The problem is ethics drift and sectors.
Sectors give a 1% ethics drift and dont build happiness buildings at all, which means no happiness bonus and lots of ethics drift so all your xenophiles stop liking other races and all your spiritualists become atheists eventually.
In fact sectors is 99% the problem with running a large state...
Its not a terrible mechanic i guess, large states should be able to take some manner of inefficiency on the chin and not go down.
Most of the posts I read on this seem to indicate the OPs were not prepared for doing the things that need doing to curb the impact of negative happiness. And by prepared I mean you need to have an infrastructure that supports the take over, integration, or whatever. So researching things like the Hyper Entertainment Center, making sure you have some spare influence to initiate edicts like propaganda broadcasts and re-education campaigns, being able to install a good governer, and also reviewing your empire policies. Sometimes you can change an empire policy to reduce the dissent with causing undue malus for the rest of the empire.
At the end of the day, depending on the traits and ethics of the subject race and how they line up with your own, yep, you may have to rid them by other means. That said, using the tools at my disposal I have generally been able to manage my way through it. And I find this to be a very interesting aspect of the game. A much better feel to the game than the unrealistic notion that you are just going to take over every one and expect they are going to be happy about it.
Regarding some of the limitations on how sectors deal with this .... I generally try and manage the planet until I get it squared away. And that is another pre-planning item. You may have to temporarily assign another planet to a sector while you get the new empire member squared away. Given that right now sectors can destroy building regardless of the settings, if I do temporarily assign a planet to a sector I choose one that is not built out.
At the end of the day, depending on the traits and ethics of the subject race and how they line up with your own, yep, you may have to rid them by other means. That said, using the tools at my disposal I have generally been able to manage my way through it. And I find this to be a very interesting aspect of the game. A much better feel to the game than the unrealistic notion that you are just going to take over every one and expect they are going to be happy about it.
Regarding some of the limitations on how sectors deal with this .... I generally try and manage the planet until I get it squared away. And that is another pre-planning item. You may have to temporarily assign another planet to a sector while you get the new empire member squared away. Given that right now sectors can destroy building regardless of the settings, if I do temporarily assign a planet to a sector I choose one that is not built out.
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You don't need happiness buildings with that setup. Ethics divergence is an issue, but by the time it threatens your happiness levels you will be sufficiently strong that you've already conquered half the galaxy and a slight reduction in efficiency isn't going to stop you from finishing everyone else off.
Currently I think Happiness, Governments, Ethics Divergence and by relation Individualism are inherently broken. That Happiness is the most powerful stat for improving resource/research gain, quelling rebellion and pacifying other xenos is strange, but then in addition to that the best Happiness modifier comes from a Democratic government type, which logically should support Individualism, but doesn't because Individualism increases Ethics Divergence which in return reduces Happiness of your POPs.
The whole thing is completely messed up. It would be much better if Happiness was like Food and only affected POP growth/decline (and rebellion of course), then everything else suddenly becomes more viable, because you're not longer solely concerned with maintaining high Happiness, you can let it drop and still be a functional empire.
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I dunno. I have conquered POPs that are not enslaved (and I even have slavery policies they don't like) that are not forming factions. In fact, I just emancipated a bunch that have adopted my ethos.
The penalty to being recently conquered is harsh (as it should be). But there are plenty of mechanisms in place to keep them from rebelling.
1) Negative Ethical Drift: I learned part of this trick from Peter. There are various ways of stacking negative ethos modifiers on planets. I've been able to get conquered POPs to adopt my ethos after a century. It takes time, and is hit or miss, but if some of the POPs adopt some of your ethos, it takes the wind out of rebellion factions.
Some government forms, techs, and edicts are designed to do this if you have the influence.
2) Manage factions: The easiest is to just manage the factions. Keep your credits and influence banked, and you just manage them to death. 400 credits is not that much to deflate a faction.
3) Happiness buildings: There are techs and buildings that increase happiness (edicts, too). Unhappy POPs won't rebel. They don't need to be the happiest POPs ever, but just happy enough to kill faction forming.
I've noticed that factions won't do much if they can't recruit enough members. Thanks to negative ethos drift and happiness, I've managed to keep factions in their infancy.
I should also point out that conquering people when you have the wrong ethos/government/techs is basically a net loss in my experience. Turn them into perma-vassals.
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@Secret Master: Sometimes, you just need the species to be added to your empire pop collection. Once I use the new species to colonise a new world, yeah, turning them into vassals is more worth it.
Yo
Yes it doesnt matter once you blob, you just accept thay being big you cant please everyone all the time...
You arent going to get the 80 or 90% happiness consistently without happiness buildings, especially if pops have ethics that give them negatives to happiness.
Yes it doesnt matter once you blob, you just accept thay being big you cant please everyone all the time...
You can get it on your own POPs though, which makes up the majority of your population until you're too big to stop. If you aren't in steamrole phase by the time you're integrating POPs in equal number to your own, then you're missing a beat.
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But how to find them?
Two games - never seen both.
Anyway: there is edict (Propaganda Broadcasts), which gives +10 happiness and greatly reduces rebelling factions. For the bad guys you can also use Reeducation Campaigns.
They must change the ethos line from 5 points (fanatic - "good" - neitral - "bad" - fanatic) degree to %% scale. With chosen method even 1%chance with checking at each month means that your people loose ethic less than in 10 years. So the check must be not for "switch to another ethos" but for "change slightly".
That's a good point. I tend to forget that I can colonize with other species, and adding new ones to my collection can save me some heartache in the colonization game.
Of course, if I could ever get terraforming to show up in the research queue before 150 years have passed, it might not matter so much.
I also found out the hard way that terraforming a planet with POPs already on it (even if they hate the planet type they are on) tends to make them angry.
Terraforming is a long process (10 years/application). So yeah, different species.
Now, if there is a better way of displaying the species in your colony ships, it'll help a lot.
Now, if there is a better way of displaying the species in your colony ships, it'll help a lot.
There are a few ways you game ethics divergence. One is conformist trait. The second is to demolish the colony lander and build a frontier clinic instead.
Yes the colony lander gives a 2% divergence until you upgrade it into an administration. So far with 7/7 planets i have not had a single case of ethos divergence on my native race with these two tactics....
Xenos divergence however is inevitable
I don't have a problem with rebellions, whether I play as a xenophobic genocidal race, or a xenophillic benevolent one - each requires particular things to be done to offset the various modifiers, but it's not hard, just requires a bit of attention.
As for sectors, I don't have a problem with ethics drift or happiness in them either - but then, I set up planets properly before handing them over to sectors to run. In my current Empire, which is the Yannari Commonwealth, all aliens are welcome as long as they submit to Yannarri "guidance". I did have some unhappy xenophobic cockroaches I "enlightened", but after some years, some "re-education" and some other more amiable aliens moving in next door, they've seen the light....
As for sectors, I don't have a problem with ethics drift or happiness in them either - but then, I set up planets properly before handing them over to sectors to run. In my current Empire, which is the Yannari Commonwealth, all aliens are welcome as long as they submit to Yannarri "guidance". I did have some unhappy xenophobic cockroaches I "enlightened", but after some years, some "re-education" and some other more amiable aliens moving in next door, they've seen the light....
Yes you can avoid rebellion. My issue is not how you can't. But it is basically a huge influence drain. 400-500 ? for integration campaign to the end. And tons for bribes and whatnot.
Not to mention if they rebel, they apparently built a secret army large enough to overwhelm your military garrison, and built a large fleet with top tech that can fight one of your fleet.
If only my sector where that good, I would take the galaxy in a few decades.
It's the same issue with EU4, where rebels spawn with 10-20k soldiers, your own military tech (prussian spacemarines say hi) and you are like "how nobody noticed them before ?"
Not to mention if they rebel, they apparently built a secret army large enough to overwhelm your military garrison, and built a large fleet with top tech that can fight one of your fleet.
If only my sector where that good, I would take the galaxy in a few decades.
It's the same issue with EU4, where rebels spawn with 10-20k soldiers, your own military tech (prussian spacemarines say hi) and you are like "how nobody noticed them before ?"
One can easily offset that lander malus with the "information quarantine" edict and a re-education campaign, or be a Theocratic Republic. All my colonies from the outset have no ethics drift at all - I am now using a Gaia world to convert alien migrants to the "correct" way of thinking.
Can't say I have that problem in either game. I may have to drop 50 influence every now and then for a short period, but once that recently conquered malus is gone, the rebels lose their main appeal and the pops start getting happier.