Paradox, Never Sell Out

[Amightypie]

Correction: only if Paradox retains 50+1% of their stock is that not an issue - and even then they can be sued if they put anything ahead of moar profits.

Once you go onto the stock market, your company is not your own.

That said, if Paradox does sell out, their best employees will just leave and form another indie studio and take the Paradox reputation with them. It's what happened to Black Isle and it's happening to Bioware now.

fair enough I know next to nothing about stock markets so I made a 'educated' guess at it

 

[Held der Arbeit]

One side of me wants more people to play Paradox games, but the other side says its best if Paradox stays niche enough so it doesn't get "Creative Assemblied"

You mean uncreatively disassembled? ;/

"Hey, we noticed you are making good games. Now make them more casual, drop niche crap that made them unique and focus on mainstream appeal. Then pump out half a dozen titles (+day 1 dlc's) before your staff gets burned out and even your most loyal fans leave you, so we can close your studio and move on to the next one"
- EA. To every studio I loved since (at least) 1999

Or the Ubisoft version:
"Your game is cool I guess, but make it more like Assassins Creed!"

 

[Yenzen]

You mean uncreatively disassembled? ;/

"Hey, we noticed you are making good games. Now make them more casual, drop niche crap that made them unique and focus on mainstream appeal. Then pump out half a dozen titles (+day 1 dlc's) before your staff gets burned out and even your most loyal fans leave you, so we can close your studio and move on to the next one"
- EA. To every studio I loved since (at least) 1999

Or the Ubisoft version:
"Your game is cool I guess, but make it more like Assassins Creed!"

It is kind of a natural process. Small studio makes good niche games, gets bigger and makes large great games, gets bought by huge evil company and degenerates. Game designers, programmers, directors and other staff with talent move on after a while and move on to start a new small studio to make good niche games...

Maybe I'm paranoid, but I've seen it too many times, like you :-l.

 

[Summin Cool]

Yeah happens all the damn time. Keep at least 60% if not 51% of the stock for yourself pls

 

[CptWilly]

I'm not really worried about a loss of financial or creative control (I'm sure the current PDX leadership will retain enough ownership to preserve that). I am a tad concerned, however, that once a company goes public there are certain restrictions that apply to public companies and their subsidiaries in regards to when and how they are able to communicate with the public regarding internal projects. The level of communication from Paradox now is outstanding, but the transparency we've enjoyed in the past may not be possible (through no fault of their own) once they are public.

 

[crowdemon]

Please, Paradox, whatever people may think of the games, the company, the DLC, I think all of us here on the forums can agree that you must NEVER sell out. Don't sell yourself to a larger company the way BioWare did to EA. I'd give you money for nothing to avoid this happening. I love you guys, I love your games, I love your attitudes, I love your interactions with the community.

I haven't seen any rumors about anything; this is just spontaneous, out of the flue. I've been going over my game library and I realize that you are the only guys left from whom I will purchase games without hesitation. BioWare used to be on that list, but since they were purchased by EA, I can barely stand them any more.

You have a unique and wonderful culture, and you obviously enjoy your jobs. So please... keep the faith. Remain Paradox. Whatever problems we may occasionally have with you, we all love you.

You have the support from us, the fans who love your games.

 

[evilon]

I'm not really worried about a loss of financial or creative control (I'm sure the current PDX leadership will retain enough ownership to preserve that). I am a tad concerned, however, that once a company goes public there are certain restrictions that apply to public companies and their subsidiaries in regards to when and how they are able to communicate with the public regarding internal projects. The level of communication from Paradox now is outstanding, but the transparency we've enjoyed in the past may not be possible (through no fault of their own) once they are public.

That's up to the share holders, I guess.

 

[The Danish King]

Shouldn't this be in the off-topic forum?

 

[CptWilly]

That's up to the share holders, I guess.

I imagine that laws vary by country, but in a lot of places it isn't. I'm not talking about dev diaries or streams that are part of a marketing effort. The concern would be, for example, that if a game dev at PDS lets slip some piece of info about an upcoming project or release that could have an impact on the financial outlook of PDX, that could be viewed in some places as passing insider information. The reaction in a lot of public companies is to strictly limit the extent to which internal employees interact with the public -- as much to protect those employees as anything.

 

[Yenzen]

I imagine that laws vary by country, but in a lot of places it isn't. I'm not talking about dev diaries or streams that are part of a marketing effort. The concern would be, for example, that if a game dev at PDS lets slip some piece of info about an upcoming project or release that could have an impact on the financial outlook of PDX, that could be viewed in some places as passing insider information. The reaction in a lot of public companies is to strictly limit the extent to which internal employees interact with the public -- as much to protect those employees than anything.

I don't know much about it, but Wiz or Bjorn explaining some gameplay mechanic outside dev diaries surely would not be counted? Or statements that superweapons would have to be future DLC because they can't balance it right now?

 

[CptWilly]

I don't know much about it, but Wiz or Bjorn explaining some gameplay mechanic outside dev diaries surely would not be counted? Or statements that superweapons would have to be future DLC because they can't balance it right now?

Certainly wouldn't run afoul of anything legally... My concern is less that any such statements would violate law, but that a public company would frown on employees posting/tweeting so liberally for fear of the consequences if one let something slip (like a problem that might call a release date into question or hint at when one might be announced) that could. That could mean less communication about everything across the board.

I'm not saying it will happen. This is just my concern. It's a possibility not a prediction.

 

[Jarac Rassen]

Oh, God, no....better to be bought by EA.

I can sense some Stardock hatred, here. For whatever reason. But I can't believe people seriously believe it would be better to be bought by the company that is known for dumbing down game series, milking their studios and then discarding them when they are no-longer useful. That and cutting out loads of content to later sell as DLC (starting like a month later).

Being bought by EA is the death of their creativity. And that's better than a (hypothetical) merger with Stardock?

That's just insane.

 

[moglus]

They are going to a variety of different studios, so it isn't really a great example. But there are numerous other examples where a 'core' team made a new start up (Interplay devs formed Obsidian, Westwood devs went to Petroglyph, etc). As far as I know Drew Karipshian (one of the authors for ME) left and returned, several devs are in the process of Kickstartering a new RPG IP, and others have gone to a dozen different companies (sadly). I wish they'd all organize and get together and form a new company, but it looks like for the moment we are doomed

Man i miss the "old Bioware" games like Jade Empire were so fucking goooooooooooood.... urgh my childhood.... I wish they had stayed together and formed a new start up with a publisher like Paradox that would actually let them make sequals for unique/original titles like Jade Empire, unlike EA who just cracks the whip until they make an new DA or ME and places all other IPs in "copyright purgatory"

It is kind of a natural process. Small studio makes good niche games, gets bigger and makes large great games, gets bought by huge evil company and degenerates. Game designers, programmers, directors and other staff with talent move on after a while and move on to start a new small studio to make good niche games...

Maybe I'm paranoid, but I've seen it too many times, like you :-l.

I mean... is that really what happens anymore tho? because imo all the "truly great" RPG studios were either bought or went under, and... i just doesn't really feel like anyone rose up to take their place.

 

[Jarac Rassen]

Man i miss the "old Bioware" games like Jade Empire were so fucking goooooooooooood.... urgh my childhood.... I wish they had stayed together and formed a new start up with a publisher like Paradox that would actually let them make sequals for unique/original titles like Jade Empire, unlike EA who just cracks the whip until they make an new DA or ME and places all other IPs in "copyright purgatory"




I mean... is that really what happens anymore tho? because imo all the "truly great" RPG studios were either bought or went under, and... i just doesn't really feel like anyone rose up to take their place.

CD Projekt RED is, especially thanks to the success of the Witcher series and it finally going mainstream. But you are right that when it comes to futuristic RPGs with a lot of choice and character customization, other studios seem scared to step up to the plate.

Well, hopefully Cyberpunk 2077 turns out great.

 

[Yenzen]

Man i miss the "old Bioware" games like Jade Empire were so fucking goooooooooooood.... urgh my childhood.... I wish they had stayed together and formed a new start up with a publisher like Paradox that would actually let them make sequals for unique/original titles like Jade Empire, unlike EA who just cracks the whip until they make an new DA or ME and places all other IPs in "copyright purgatory"




I mean... is that really what happens anymore tho? because imo all the "truly great" RPG studios were either bought or went under, and... i just doesn't really feel like anyone rose up to take their place.

I liked Pillars of Eternity, have some hopes for Tyranny and Planescape: ToN

 

[moglus]

I liked Pillars of Eternity, have some hopes for Tyranny and Planescape: ToN

I very intensely disliked Pillars of Eternity... Most of all because of obtuse mechanics and 90% of Npc's being these kickstarter novel long fanfics with no actual interaction with the gameworld.

 

[Yenzen]

I very intensely disliked Pillars of Eternity... Most of all because of obtuse mechanics and 90% of Npc's being these kickstarter novel long fanfics with no actual interaction with the gameworld.

Agreed on the NPCs, disagreed on the former, it could be more clear but BG2 was, if anything, even more obtuse.

 

[moglus]

CD Projekt RED is, especially thanks to the success of the Witcher series and it finally going mainstream. But you are right that when it comes to futuristic RPGs with a lot of choice and character customization, other studios seem scared to step up to the plate.

Well, hopefully Cyberpunk 2077 turns out great.

I guess i didn't count CDPR because i was a fan of the first the Witcher game, and they own GOG so i'd say they're not exactly small anymore, especially with the huge success that the Witcher 3 was.

I'm intrigued about Cyberpunk 2077.... but they did say to not expect any tangible info until at least 2017 so i'm not gonna get excited about that just yet.

 

[Luiz Felipe]

Game News: EA buy Paradox.
One week latter: Europa Universallis V: Action RPG.
Six months latter: Stellaris 2: the space first person shooter.
One year latter: Crusader Kings 3, the adventure.
Two years latter: Hearts of Iron, tank battle.

 

[moglus]

Agreed on the NPCs, disagreed on the former, it could be more clear but BG2 was, if anything, even more obtuse.

Agreed, but BG2 also came out in 2000 so i'm not sure it's a fair comparison...

Now "The Age of Decadence" there is an "old school" CRPG that i loved to bits! Compared to that PoE was "very meh" in my opinion