Paradox mathematics is awful

[Stolen Rutters]

I have been colonizing like crazy and read up on stuff and generally had fun, great game. The mathematical knowledge of paradox needs to improve, it says Colonial maintaince increases exponentially with each colony above the limit.

Sorry but it does not, it increases polynomially and to be more precise, by the square of the amount of colonies. Seriously? They should know better, I know, it's a minor things, but it illustrates their ignorance which is sad, I'd like them to know the differens.

Polynomial is technically correct (and you are right, quadratic is even more correct), but it has no colloquial meaning in English. (i.e. only someone who knows and works math would use the term, the word does not really exist elsewhere)

Exponentially has a mathematical meaning (relating to an exponential function) and a more general non-mathematical meaning (rapidly increasing). Since ONLY a mathematician would use polynomial, you would describe any bent growth curve as exponential or "geometric" (geometric is now more used to describe a shape, but as an old form, it is still valid... as in older folks like me would recognize what you meant).

source: Engineer, 20 years experience witnessing the language we all speak change before my eyes.

 

[Te. Kenzo]

Don't be a nerd.

Is good to be a nerd, but sometime you act wrong 'cause of your certainty.

 

[net.split]

Polynomial is technically correct (and you are right, quadratic is even more correct), but it has no colloquial meaning in English. (i.e. only someone who knows and works math would use the term, the word does not really exist elsewhere)

Exponentially has a mathematical meaning (relating to an exponential function) and a more general non-mathematical meaning (rapidly increasing). Since ONLY a mathematician would use polynomial, you would describe any bent growth curve as exponential or "geometric" (geometric is now more used to describe a shape, but as an old form, it is still valid... as in older folks like me would recognize what you meant).

source: Engineer, 20 years experience witnessing the language we all speak change before my eyes.

Better would be to use a term that's neither mathematically incorrect/wishy-washy nor requires a background in mathematics to understand.

For example, "swiftly" or "substantially" or "considerably."

Having the formula written out somewhere would be the best, but that could be tricky to display.

 

[Jaol]

Not math exactly, but the UI for modifiers is often pretty horrible. For example, how exactly do combat ability and discipline work? In the Military screen, we see:

• Re. Combat Ability "This is a flat increase to the amount of damage your units deal in combat" and it is expressed in terms of +X% (e.g. +10%)
• Re. Discipline "Damage done is multiplied by your discipline, and damage taken is reduced or increased depending on your discipline" and it is expressed in terms of X% (e.g. 110.0%)

That's two different wordings ("flat increase" "multiplied" and "increased or reduced"), and two different numerical representations (+10% vs 110%). Is there a reason for this difference? Or are they basically the same type of modifier?

And how exactly do they stack? Say, a unit has a Combat Ability of +30%, with Discipline 125%. Do you add them together before modifying the base damage value (i.e. base * 1.55) or is the base value first multiplied by CA, then by Disc, or vice versa (either way = base * 1.625)?

All of this is left vague.

 

[Tom013]

Polynomial is technically correct (and you are right, quadratic is even more correct), but it has no colloquial meaning in English. (i.e. only someone who knows and works math would use the term, the word does not really exist elsewhere)

Exponentially has a mathematical meaning (relating to an exponential function) and a more general non-mathematical meaning (rapidly increasing). Since ONLY a mathematician would use polynomial, you would describe any bent growth curve as exponential or "geometric" (geometric is now more used to describe a shape, but as an old form, it is still valid... as in older folks like me would recognize what you meant).

source: Engineer, 20 years experience witnessing the language we all speak change before my eyes.

Better would be to use a term that's neither mathematically incorrect/wishy-washy nor requires a background in mathematics to understand.

For example, "swiftly" or "substantially" or "considerably."

Having the formula written out somewhere would be the best, but that could be tricky to display.

You could, but to add another couple of sources: Oxford English Dictionary and Merriam-Webster Dictionary both have a definition of exponential that fits SR's colloquial interpretation.

The formula could pop up in the secondary tooltip, but yeah, that could lead to some pretty extraordinary tooltips. They could also just show the NEXT multiplier (the one you aren't yet reaching) -- that would help.

 

[net.split]

You could, but to add another couple of sources: Oxford English Dictionary and Merriam-Webster Dictionary both have a definition of exponential that fits SR's colloquial interpretation.

The formula could pop up in the secondary tooltip, but yeah, that could lead to some pretty extraordinary tooltips. They could also just show the NEXT multiplier (the one you aren't yet reaching) -- that would help.

Yes, this. Every action button / lever should have a display that tells you what will change if you take the action.

 

[AndrewT]

Note to self: should I ever get onto my high horse to lecture people about a very obscure UI detail and the ingnoranse of the game designers - don't forget to use the spell check.

A fine example of Muphry's Law in action.

 

[EmperorZelos]

A fine example of Muphry's Law in action.

Also a fine example of irrelevancy, not yours but his.

Better would be to use a term that's neither mathematically incorrect/wishy-washy nor requires a background in mathematics to understand.

For example, "swiftly" or "substantially" or "considerably."

Agreed, even "Faster than expected" would suffice

 

[richelieu1628]

A fine example of Muphry's Law in action.

No, that was my fine attempt at being witty... ignoranse-differense, see?

Edit: It took me a long two hours to actually come back to this thread and follow the link on Muphry's law, which I didn't even notice the first time round. Laughed hard and forwarded to the entire office...

 

[lolada]

Not math exactly, but the UI for modifiers is often pretty horrible. For example, how exactly do combat ability and discipline work? In the Military screen, we see:

• Re. Combat Ability "This is a flat increase to the amount of damage your units deal in combat" and it is expressed in terms of +X% (e.g. +10%)
• Re. Discipline "Damage done is multiplied by your discipline, and damage taken is reduced or increased depending on your discipline" and it is expressed in terms of X% (e.g. 110.0%)

That's two different wordings ("flat increase" "multiplied" and "increased or reduced"), and two different numerical representations (+10% vs 110%). Is there a reason for this difference? Or are they basically the same type of modifier?

And how exactly do they stack? Say, a unit has a Combat Ability of +30%, with Discipline 125%. Do you add them together before modifying the base damage value (i.e. base * 1.55) or is the base value first multiplied by CA, then by Disc, or vice versa (either way = base * 1.625)?

All of this is left vague.

There is only so much things that can be placed on the screen. Use EU4 Wiki to find these information, we are in internet age after all. Paradox wouldn't do bad to .pdf current wiki version somehow and install it as help/guide with the game.

 

[grekulf]

Math is working, but the tooltip could be improved

 

[Wizzington]

I will update the tooltip to show the actual value of the power calculation.

 

[AlphaSonic]

Colonization is polinomial, if you have colonists. When you don't have more colonist and continue colonizing (you have 3 colonies and only 2 of them have a colonist) then the maintenance grows exponentially. That's what I always thought.

 

[Arumba]

Colonization is polinomial, if you have colonists. When you don't have more colonist and continue colonizing (you have 3 colonies and only 2 of them have a colonist) then the maintenance grows exponentially. That's what I always thought.

It's ~2 ducats per colony up to your colonist count and after that it is quadratic. IE 2², 3², 4², 5²...

It has already been stated, but to reiterate, the confusion here is between accepted definitions of the world 'exponential'. Mathematically speaking it is NOT exponential, it is quadratic. Exponential would be 2^x. But from a less mathematic definition of exponential, "(of an increase) becoming more and more rapid." the cost of a colony does increase more rapidly than the previous expense.

But we're talking about Map-Staring-Experts here. Pedantic is just one adjective to describe us...