Paradox mathematics is awful

[EmperorZelos]

I have been colonizing like crazy and read up on stuff and generally had fun, great game. The mathematical knowledge of paradox needs to improve, it says Colonial maintaince increases exponentially with each colony above the limit.

Sorry but it does not, it increases polynomially and to be more precise, by the square of the amount of colonies. Seriously? They should know better, I know, it's a minor things, but it illustrates their ignorance which is sad, I'd like them to know the differens.

 

[swimmer11]

I can only assume it is because more people would be familiar with the concept that exponentially means "quite a bit and you should avoid it unless you can afford it," whereas I don't even know what polynomially is. I took math in HS and never again.

 

[Banjo]

I have been colonizing like crazy and read up on stuff and generally had fun, great game. The mathematical knowledge of paradox needs to improve, it says Colonial maintaince increases exponentially with each colony above the limit.

Sorry but it does not, it increases polynomially and to be more precise, by the square of the amount of colonies. Seriously? They should know better, I know, it's a minor things, but it illustrates their ignorance which is sad, I'd like them to know the differens.

Difference.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I can only assume it is because more people would be familiar with the concept that exponentially means "quite a bit and you should avoid it unless you can afford it," whereas I don't even know what polynomially is. I took math in HS and never again.

If you don't know what that means and PI is concerned, they could just say that each colony over your limit costs increasingly more. Increasing by the square of the amount of colonies over the limit is more straightforward indeed.

Though it's worth noting that the UI is much shakier in other regards.

 

[DanubianCossak]

Difference.

For Lenin's sake...

 

[Camtheman]

Yep.

Paradox math fails. Somehow in a realm with 1.6m men, a total vassal strength of 673k is 25% stronger than their liege.

The vassal liberty desire is annoying, and frankly miscalculated... badly.

Why any overlord would allow his vassals to ally eachother is beyond me.

We need a CB on all our disloyal vassals that makes their liberty desire 0 for 100 years, for 100% warscore, or something to that effect.

Keeping them in line, it's really getting ridiculous. They don't even ally under the overlord's nose. It's blatantly obvious what they're trying to do.

Look at this for example:

My vassal Ottomans, fairly large but nowhere near as rich or powerful as me.

Adding my vassals militaries:

Ottomans: 291
Najd: 122
Low Countries: 212
Eastern Confederation: 48

= 673 units, i.e. 673k men.

Versus me

1,648 units, i.e. 1.64 million men.

Yet, somehow "All vassals relative strength to liege" is ~25% in favor of the vassals?

I think they mean to calculate that it's 25% in favor of the overlord. 25% of 1.64 mil is 412.5, which is close to what the vassals have all together.

It should be -25% liberty desire for all vassals strength relative to liege, not +25% liberty desire. It would be +25% if the vassals had 2.06 mil and I had 1.65 mil.

Clearly someone has never passed math class, or they have never played their game.

I would like to see my vassals rebel and try to beat my million more men. It would be a deluge. lmao.

Ridiculous.

 

[Yxklyx]

I hate when I hover over an un-colonized province and the game tells me that the range is 160 - matching my colonial range of 160 yet when I go to colonize I can't because it's not within range. Someone doesn't know about significant digits and rounding...

 

[Kagemin]

@Camtheman: That doesn't mean that they are 27.3% stronger, but that the difference in power gives +27.3% to their liberty desire. They get a bonus to their liberty desire well before they are equally strong from what I saw so far.

 

[Wizzington]

@Camtheman: That doesn't mean that they are 27.3% stronger, but that the difference in power gives +27.3% to their liberty desire. They get a bonus to their liberty desire well before they are equally strong from what I saw so far.

Yep. People crying out loudly on how the game is bugged because it does not adhere to their random leaps of logic is always fun though.

 

[Camtheman]

@Camtheman: That doesn't mean that they are 27.3% stronger, but that the difference in power gives +27.3% to their liberty desire. They get a bonus to their liberty desire well before they are equally strong from what I saw so far.

Which difference in power?

The mathematical truth all of my vassals have fewer men than I do alone?

It's clearly not the math that's flawed but the logic behind it. I should've known.

Yep. People crying out loudly on how the game is bugged because it does not adhere to their random leaps of logic is always fun though.

No, it's the fact it's not obvious why they think they're 27.3% stronger than me when every other measure of strength in the game would say otherwise.

1648 vs ~650.

300k gold in the bank with 1.1k/monthly income

 

[josh127]

Yep. People crying out loudly on how the game is bugged because it does not adhere to their random leaps of logic is always fun though.

Rising above the level of the rabble is a far more admirable trait than joining it. Using the same energy you could have explained what the numbers meant so that your customers would understand it a little bit better.

 

[Wizzington]

Which difference in power?

The mathematical truth all of my vassals have fewer men than I do alone?

It's clearly not the math that's flawed but the logic behind it. I should've known.



No, it's the fact it's not obvious why they think they're 27.3% stronger than me when every other measure of strength in the game would say otherwise.

1648 vs ~650.

300k gold in the bank with 1.1k/monthly income

They don't think they're 27.3% stronger than you. Their strength compared to yours gives them 27.3% liberty desire. Off the top of my head, that means they think they have about half of your power. (It's mostly based on ceonomic power and army potential, not standing army sizes, as otherwise all vassals would revolt the second you got a stackwipe. Standing army sizes do factor in though.)

 

[Pornek]

(It's mostly based on ceonomic power and army potential, not standing army sizes, as otherwise all vassals would revolt the second you got a stackwipe. Standing army sizes do factor in though.)

Thanks!

 

[Camtheman]

Looks like I need to spam Recruitment Centers or whatever the last military building is called that adds forcelimit.

Would love a tooltip there though, with what you just said. Like a breakdown of the values, instead of being some enigma.

 

[artemis667]

I can only assume it is because more people would be familiar with the concept that exponentially means "quite a bit and you should avoid it unless you can afford it," whereas I don't even know what polynomially is. I took math in HS and never again.

Agree, it might not be technically correct, but the formula produces exactly the same practical result, and while I'm pretty sure I've come across the term polynomial a couple of decades ago at uni, it's unusually obscure for a term that you might see in a game.

 

[eroskos]

They don't think they're 27.3% stronger than you. Their strength compared to yours gives them 27.3% liberty desire. Off the top of my head, that means they think they have about half of your power. (It's mostly based on ceonomic power and army potential, not standing army sizes, as otherwise all vassals would revolt the second you got a stackwipe. Standing army sizes do factor in though.)

thank you for clarifying. I think there’s still some concern that many of the numbers used in the game have clear calculations while others are hidden. This is a case where the liberty desire increase is obvious but the cause is not since “power” means all sorts of things in the game.

I think there are already so many numbers that it might be overkill to include them all in tooltips, but I think it’s reasonable to get explanations for bigger mechanics like this one. If I’m wrong and it was explained somewhere previously then my apologies.

Keep up the good work!

 

[EmperorZelos]

I can only assume it is because more people would be familiar with the concept that exponentially means "quite a bit and you should avoid it unless you can afford it," whereas I don't even know what polynomially is. I took math in HS and never again.

It means in accordance to any polynomial, x^n, exponential means a^x on the other hand

 

[richelieu1628]

Note to self: should I ever get onto my high horse to lecture people about a very obscure UI detail and the ingnoranse of the game designers - don't forget to use the spell check.

 

[DicRoNero]

No idea why you guys (experienced in EU4, I supposed) got confused by this. I mean, we all know how basetax is compared in vassalization proposal, right? It gives insane negative modifiers long before their basetax is comparable to yours.

 

[Hackworthy]

Don't be a nerd.