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Lord E: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1243295&postcount=283

Specifically where's the title "King of France" revoked?

Beherovek said:
Could somebody post a link to that Calais treaty?
I'll dig in the Vault again :).

And - As far as I know Provence is owned by Rene d`Anjou not the Pope or King of France? ( Alhough Rene is Louis` vassal as count of Provence)
The Count of Provence is the vassal of the King of France. The Calais thing made the Count of Provence the vassal of the Pope instead (and that's why the guys in the 1558 RPG called their Pope "Father and Overlord of Provence" for a time :D).


EDIT: here y'are



--------
THE CALAIS ARMISTICE


1. All remaining French vassals should be made temporary vassals of mother church. If the Holy father see's fit. (To be cared for and guided by the Holy father and his Curia, for not less than 2 years. They are to be released to the new Dauphins rule at the discretion of the Vicar of Christ after that time.) Or failing that Holy penance is to be served by France to further the one true faith in the Holy Fathers name.
2. Mad Charles is to be kept on secure estates in Champagne.
Charles' Heir is to be recognised by Federation members as King of his presently held lands. (After the treaty)
3. Louis is sent to England to be taught in an English university. France will pick the next monarch in line to serve as regent until Louis is of age.
4. Two hundred ducats to England, from France, who shall distribute them accordingly as the King of England sees fit."
5. There is to be a royal marriage between Aragon and France.
6. Languedoc to go to Aragon
7. England gets Ile de France and Champagne
8. Normandy gets Orleans
9. The French regent/Ruler is to ensure no Casus Belli is valid from any other states, on their behalf. Through old claims or alliances now outstanding or ever upcoming. Any such outside agitation through French diplomacy or bribe is to be considered due reason for Casus Belli from the Federation .
10. Aquitaine, Navarra, Brittany and Portugal have no interest in gains, other than to have served in honour and good faith. They shall have a medal bestowed upon them. "Champions of the West"
11. No nation of France is ever to ally with Scotland again.
12. A Trade agreement with Portugal, Aragon, Normandy, Brittany, Eire and Aquitaine with England, France and Vassals and between each other.
13. Normandy will remain as an English interest and the English Monarch, it's Duke.
14. Normandy, Aquitaine, Brittany, Auvergne, Bourbonaise, Provence, kingdom France etc. To accept the house of Plantaginet and future Kings and Queens of England as Judicial Overlord of France including all Frankish domains and are never to raise arms against him or any of his vassals again. With the exception of Burgundy or any of her possessions.
Burgundy to be first peer of France
Non aggression oath pledge. 10 years.
15. All French possessions are to make a lasting peace agreement with Aquitaine, Portugal, Navarre, Brittany Normandy, Aragon, Naples and Eire. To last a minimum of 10 years. (standard Non aggression pact) To be enforced by all the signatories bellow.
16. Charles and his heirs are to renounce claims to the French continent (Gallia) as a whole. Normandy, Aquitaine, Brittany, England and it's continental possessions are to be considered sovereign to themselves and not part of the French crown ever again. The Kingdom of France is to consist of the current French Monarchs personally possessed provinces alone, within the boundaries of Gallia. Though without this continent may expand to pass gods word in other lands. (The Continent of France is to be known as Gallia.)
17. Burgundies Non Imperial lands to be considered sovereign to it's ruler alone (In the eyes of the Federation and France) , and she shall have RoP through English continental possessions to better help police the peace, until further notice
18. To be signed by the Dukes of Orleans, Bourbonaise, Provence, Auvergne. The Royal heir and Regent. Also all Federation members and any self proclaimed Nobles in the French court claiming the titles from any ceded land.
The church should be represented by no one of lower stature than Cardinal, and the pontiffs ratification sought.
19. The Holy See may revoke the position of "Judicial Overlord" if, by the Will of God, the Holy See deems it necessary after the probationary period of 2 years. Before this time, the King of England's role as "Judicial Overlord" is only subject to an "Extraordinary vote" of a Papal Conclave. Articles 1, 2, 3, 12, 17, & 18 also stand subject to this clause.
---------
 

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Petrarca

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Which Emperor signed the Calais Armistice?
 

Petrarca

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Longinus said:
I believe it was Albert von H.
Just what I wanted to hear. :)
 

N Katsyev

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Lord E said:
Well I will tell you the short story:

Me: Recognized by the pope and the only true King of France (and also got a boy with a nice claim on England)

Mettermrck: Trying to make him self look good :p , and therefore he needs an other title, and since he though the title Emperor of the Isle of Man wasn’t good enough he decided to go for the old fashion title the English Kings like to take… King of France ;)

Out of character view: Sorry Mett, but good job sir, put those pesky anglo-saxons back in their place. ;)

In character view: Keep bickering.

:)
 

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Mettermrck said:
Bravo, welcome back, IKK and Archduke. :)

Thanks, as Tunisia is taken I had to take a naval nation again. And non-muslim for a change. :)
 

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Hey BB I`ve read your last post on Loth and it seems that Directoire is practically ruling in Loth now.

So could you create it? I mean who exactly is in it, what lands those lords control, how does it work, how the members are choosen etc.

I just would like to know who I`m talking to ( not some anonymous crowd, you know what I mean )

thanks :)
 

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Beherovek said:
Hey BB I`ve read your last post on Loth and it seems that Directoire is practically ruling in Loth now.

So could you create it? I mean who exactly is in it, what lands those lords control, how does it work, how the members are choosen etc.

I just would like to know who I`m talking to ( not some anonymous crowd, you know what I mean )

thanks :)

Well, the day the Bulle mentionned that the Directoire was responsible for taxes, and couldn't be pushed to provide troops in case of an aggressive war, I guess it did seal the fate of the Crown to being far less powerfull than it was before. So, yes, the Directoire, at this point, is in control. Perhaps a good parallel would be lile a parliementary monarchy at this point? Though I'm no expert.

Éléanore was elected as the head of the Directoire, as for the other titles, we can guess the following are there:

Phoebus de Châteaupers as Duke of Auvergne.
Amédée IX de Savoie as Duke of Savoie and governor of Genoa
Karl von Wittelsbach as Herzog of Alsace
Some kind of a regency council in Lorraine, which was de Montainblanc's domains before.
No one in Nevers
D'Armagnac in Champagne
And the whole norther parts are directly linked to the Crown.
There would be, IIRC, René's son as a figurehead representing the lords of Bar.
There would be many representatives of the Church. Rheims, Cluny, etc.
And a few others.

But things might change. First step is figuring who Anne will accuse of associating with the death of her husband. This will free up some lands. Then there will be choices to be made. Anne and the Directoire will have to agree to the splitting of these lands.

If you need to talk to the Directoire, just talk to Éléanore. She's the leader of the Directoire.

Hope this helps!
 

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SaT said:
When and how?
Since you never asked, you never got. Since you always had, they couldn't give.

You mean the Queen-Dowager of England. And I admit, since I wasn't here back then, and because it's in the middle of KW's court, I don't know much about the annexation of Normandy. I must ransack the Vault again.

First off all 13. Normandy will remain as an English interest and the English Monarch, it's Duke.
Since Richard was given the title of Duke after this treaty was signing it wasn’t the monarch, but someone else who was Duke

3. Louis is sent to England to be taught in an English university. France will pick the next monarch in line to serve as regent until Louis is of age.]
From what I know, as I wasn’t in the game when the treaty was made, this never happened, and England never accepted Louis later on…

All remaining French vassals should be made temporary vassals of mother church. If the Holy father see's fit. (To be cared for and guided by the Holy father and his Curia, for not less than 2 years. They are to be released to the new Dauphins rule at the discretion of the Vicar of Christ after that time.) Or failing that Holy penance is to be served by France to further the one true faith in the Holy Fathers name.
As I said the pope has never done as he was supposed to, and the treaty was more than 2 years old when I started playing France…

Well from what I remember you wasn’t her back in the time I asked… Provence, played by Ladislav, was turned back through an event Reb made since Ladislav was playing Provence as a French vassal and not under Papal control, and therefore an event was triggered handing Provence fully back.

Bourbonnais, well I did ask several Popes about it…but since they die so fast it has been a little hard, but Molleby when he was Pope and I, made a treaty about it, but it was stopped by JG, I think or some other mod, since someone said that we couldn’t do this since Bourbonnais was NPC, it was “illegal” to transfer the vassalage back…

And besides I didn’t play France back when the time was there for the land to be handed back through the Calais treaty so since no Pope did it then, or no Pope has ever done it yet after I have asked, the pope broke the treaty…

Oh and Sat look here:
KingWittelsbach said:
Treaty of Eternal Brotherhood
Upon this day June 5 in the year of our lord 1431 know that the great nations of Normandie, France, and England met to discuss the concerning threat upon the continent of Gaulia. From these peace talks came forth the blueprint for a peaceful Gaulia, the Treaty of Eternal Brotherhood.

2. The Kingdom of France will be recognised as such by all parties, and all claims from the House of Plantagenet and York, and all their sub-set shall be forever recognised as nil. This will forever void the claim from Edward III of England, from the House of Plantagenet, Charles de Valois, of the House of Valois, as the bearer of the Crown of France.
 

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BusterBunny said:
Éléanore was elected as the head of the Directoire, as for the other titles, we can guess the following are there:

Phoebus de Châteaupers as Duke of Auvergne.
Amédée IX de Savoie as Duke of Savoie and governor of Genoa
Karl von Wittelsbach as Herzog of Alsace
Some kind of a regency council in Lorraine, which was de Montainblanc's domains before.
No one in Nevers
D'Armagnac in Champagne
And the whole norther parts are directly linked to the Crown.
There would be, IIRC, René's son as a figurehead representing the lords of Bar.
There would be many representatives of the Church. Rheims, Cluny, etc.
And a few others.

But things might change. First step is figuring who Anne will accuse of associating with the death of her husband. This will free up some lands. Then there will be choices to be made. Anne and the Directoire will have to agree to the splitting of these lands.

If you need to talk to the Directoire, just talk to Éléanore. She's the leader of the Directoire.

Hope this helps!

fine, but -

Rene is not representing lords of Bar, he is their sovereign, . - and his son is administrating the Ducy when he is not present.

figurehead? what do you exactly mean?
 

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ahhh, one more thing, BB - you posted that the Bulle of Anna was somewhat changed, but you didn`t specify the exact changes. Could you post the new text of the bulle? ( IC ) The same situation - playing Rene I don`t know how should he react etc. , becouse I don`t know what is th new content of the Bulle.
 
Last edited:

Longinus

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Lord E said:
First off all 13. Normandy will remain as an English interest and the English Monarch, it's Duke.
Since Richard was given the title of Duke after this treaty was signing it wasn’t the monarch, but someone else who was Duke

3. Louis is sent to England to be taught in an English university. France will pick the next monarch in line to serve as regent until Louis is of age.]
From what I know, as I wasn’t in the game when the treaty was made, this never happened, and England never accepted Louis later on…

All remaining French vassals should be made temporary vassals of mother church. If the Holy father see's fit. (To be cared for and guided by the Holy father and his Curia, for not less than 2 years. They are to be released to the new Dauphins rule at the discretion of the Vicar of Christ after that time.) Or failing that Holy penance is to be served by France to further the one true faith in the Holy Fathers name.
As I said the pope has never done as he was supposed to, and the treaty was more than 2 years old when I started playing France…

Well from what I remember you wasn’t her back in the time I asked… Provence, played by Ladislav, was turned back through an event Reb made since Ladislav was playing Provence as a French vassal and not under Papal control, and therefore an event was triggered handing Provence fully back.

Bourbonnais, well I did ask several Popes about it…but since they die so fast it has been a little hard, but Molleby when he was Pope and I, made a treaty about it, but it was stopped by JG, I think or some other mod, since someone said that we couldn’t do this since Bourbonnais was NPC, it was “illegal” to transfer the vassalage back…

And besides I didn’t play France back when the time was there for the land to be handed back through the Calais treaty so since no Pope did it then, or no Pope has ever done it yet after I have asked, the pope broke the treaty…

Oh and Sat look here:

they whole treaty was just a large pile of BS and as never upheld by either side :D I think it was meant no to be upheld anyway, I mean look into this, it was just plain insane