Paradox: Janissaries and 90 Army Tradition

[wingzero890]

So, Janissary decadence being a disaster is pretty neat, even if the disaster itself is extremely crippling and almost always guaranteed to happen if you have the Janissaries. It fires if your ruler has less than 5 in all categories so why would you ever take the Janissary pop up when it happens?

However, actually getting the Janissary event to pop up in the first place is pretty difficult, since it requires you to have 90(!) army tradition. With the nerf to tradition gain from battles, even chain-completing early Ottoman missions isn't a sure way to reach 90 tradition. Plus, those missions are not always a guaranteed to show up, so all you can do is carpet siege.

If you're 'winning' that hard, why would you ever take the Janissary modifier? 10% infantry CA, 10% manpower recovery speed, and 5% discipline is nice, but if you've reached 90 tradition then clearly winning wars is not a problem for you. The high likelihood of being crippled by decadence makes this modifier entirely 'unviable'. Also, many of these Janissary centric events are only temporary modifiers, like the Enderrun academy which only lasts 10 years.

Basically, I'm wondering if we can expect an overhaul to Ottoman events? I'm not saying they need to be buffed, just that I would like for some consistency and logic to apply to them.

 

[Daddl]

We had this discussion about AT somewhere before, but seriously, Ottomans are the easiest country to max AT. Not only their missions give it frequently, but its almost guaranteed that this event pops up around 1500 where you have to decide between 200 Mil Points or 50 AT.

Yes, it may not wise to choose Janissaries at all, alone the thousands of ducats they demand every time your king dies are annoying, but yeah, you know what you get for it.

 

[wingzero890]

We had this discussion about AT somewhere before, but seriously, Ottomans are the easiest country to max AT. Not only their missions give it frequently, but its almost guaranteed that this event pops up around 1500 where you have to decide between 200 Mil Points or 50 AT.

Yes, it may not wise to choose Janissaries at all, alone the thousands of ducats they demand every time your king dies are annoying, but yeah, you know what you get for it.

You mean this event that requires you to already have the Janissaries?

The Devsirme System

• Can only fire once

Trigger:

• Has the country modifier "The Janissaries"
• Has the country modifier "Provincial Government System"
• has_disaster_false = Janissary Decadence

Mean time to happen

• Base mean time to happen of 300 months

Option: Increase recruiting through the devsirme system.:

• Changes army tradition by 50

Option: Our military focus should be elsewhere:

• Changes military power stored by 200

 

[Daddl]

Oh it does. My fault. Then of course its pretty useless, why would you choose 50 AT if you already have over 90.

I agree with you that its much harder to gain AT, but I'm fine with that. Its hard, but not impossible. We can argue if its good that missions or carpet sieging is the only way to do it or not. But the Janissarys work as they should: Their boni can make the important difference in the outcome of the battle, especially when you can still stack ideas and policies on it (not that you would need that in SP), and you have to pay them well for it. As we see, you get additional nice events too, beside the nasty onea. So its your choice if you think they are worth it or not.

 

[wingzero890]

All I'm saying is that the Ottoman events need to be reworked to be logically consistent. Janissaries should simply be a day 0 decision you make rather than something that requires near max tradition, and the buffs that come with the events should last much longer.

 

[Haldan]

Would be cool if Byzantium or the Turkish minors would get the Ottoman events (twisted around a bit for Byzzies) if they conquer the Ottomans, and take things over, and sort of become the "New Ottomans" of this alt universe.

 

[Johan]

Definitely need some tweaks.

 

[lolada]

Its not easy to get 90 AT, it takes quite a lot of time and effort, i think i got Janissaries around 1530 in last patch.. Some people will probably never get it, 90 AT requirement should be reduced significantly.

 

[CyberianK]

So, Janissary decadence being a disaster is pretty neat, even if the disaster itself is extremely crippling and almost always guaranteed to happen if you have the Janissaries. It fires if your ruler has less than 5 in all categories so why would you ever take the Janissary pop up when it happens?

I think that is not true because if one attribute is 5 it stops or has a chance to stop. Whatever in my current game I had a 2/5/4 for many years and the disaster did not happen. I will eventually probably get it though when I get a bad ruler.

However, actually getting the Janissary event to pop up in the first place is pretty difficult, since it requires you to have 90(!) army tradition. With the nerf to tradition gain from battles, even chain-completing early Ottoman missions isn't a sure way to reach 90 tradition. Plus, those missions are not always a guaranteed to show up, so all you can do is carpet siege.

With ottomans you have so many troops and lands to conquer that I find carpet sieging more than easy with ottomans and I am usually at 90-100 in war times sometimes dropping to 80 in peace.

What I don't get is that peoples advise against taking Janissaries when you can just simple end it later whenever you want. Enjoy the bonus until like at least 1550 when you still have wars where the bonus matters and disband it when you don't need it anymore and the negative things are more prominent.

 

[neaiskink]

What I don't get is that peoples advise against taking Janissaries when you can just simple end it later whenever you want. Enjoy the bonus until like at least 1550 when you still have wars where the bonus matters and disband it when you don't need it anymore and the negative things are more prominent.

OMG it is possible to END it? How do you end it?

 

[Mztr44]

OMG it is possible to END it? How do you end it?

I think what he means is that when the decadence fires, there is a decision button you can use to dismiss them and get rid of the huge negative bonuses.

 

[wingzero890]

Definitely need some tweaks.

Thanks Johan!

 

[MrLewis413]

So when do I get the disaster? Because in my current game I have a weak leader, the disaster button turned Into colour, but theres no monthly progress...

 

[Legend92]

janissaries found at 1363 before eu4 start date, ottoman should start with janissary bonus i think(%2,5bonus for combat ability/dicipline/morale)

 

[henrikhka]

So when do I get the disaster? Because in my current game I have a weak leader, the disaster button turned Into colour, but theres no monthly progress...

It's very intransparent. At some point you'll get an event that offers you to either stand up against demands of the Janissaries, or give in. The first option will seem worst, but that's only because you don't know that the second one will make you tick towards janissary decadence disaster.

So basically, unless it's impossible, always stand up against janissary demand.

I really think the lack in transparency of this event is the biggest problem with the janissaries. 150 years in, everything going great, get the event, go with the best option - boom janissaries lost for rest of the game. The fact that they are hard to get is not such a big issue for me, as they do give you quite a decent bonus, although how you get the is somewhat intransparent as well.

 

[Dewit]

Definitely need some tweaks.

(Temporary) quick fix:
Why not let it fire at 80 army tradition.

 

[Strangedane]

Their boni

Bonus, Adjective: Unexpected good circumstance.
Boni, Genitive form of Bonus as a noun: Gentleman / Good Person.

What you are looking for is Bona; Adjective: Plural form of bonus.

Trying to be spiffy is cool and all, until someone who actually understands rudimentary latin grammar comes along and shows that you're just a poser. =P

 

[Dewit]

In German,

boni as a plural of bonus is correct.

 

[Strangedane]

In German,

boni as a plural of bonus is correct.

Have a hard time seeing how that's relevant for an English post?

I also have a hard time seeing why people can't just write bonuses.
You know, the correct word.
Instead of trying something they clearly can't.

So it's either:
A: A bad attempt at latin.
or
B: A minor slip with german.

I guess B could be plausible, and if that's the case I apologise for trying to educate the world one person at a time. =P

 

[hwoosh]

Bonus, Adjective: Unexpected good circumstance.
Boni, Genitive form of Bonus as a noun: Gentleman / Good Person.

What you are looking for is Bona; Adjective: Plural form of bonus.

Trying to be spiffy is cool and all, until someone who actually understands rudimentary latin grammar comes along and shows that you're just a poser. =P

Don't correct people's Latin unless you actually know Latin. That makes you the poser.

Every single thing you say in your two posts is wrong. To wit:

"Boni" (masculine plural) is the plural of "bonus" (masculine singular). "Bona" (neuter plural) is the plural of "bonum" (neuter singular).

And "boni", alongside "bonuses", is well established in English as the plural of "bonus" in the sense "positive modifier". There is absolutely no reason to object to it.