• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

john_who

Second Lieutenant
68 Badges
Nov 27, 2006
194
23
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Penumbra - Black Plague
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Pride of Nations
  • Rise of Prussia
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • East India Company Collection
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Cities in Motion
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
1) Name one game that has absolutely, totally no bug in it.
2) Name one bug in the latest 'official' HTTT patch that is game breaking.

1) Half-Life 2, Left4Dead2, Portal... everything from Valve really.
2) As I said before, Muslim westernization is game breaking IMHO (at least if you want to play a muslim nation and westernize...). Also patriot rebels are broken in 4.0c. Colony construction bug too...
 

pevergreen

The Two Time
Moderator
106 Badges
Apr 27, 2010
2.582
1.391
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • 500k Club
1) Half-Life 2, Left4Dead2, Portal... everything from Valve really.
2) As I said before, Muslim westernization is game breaking IMHO (at least if you want to play a muslim nation and westernize...). Also patriot rebels are broken in 4.0c. Colony construction bug too...

Theres plenty of minor bugs in HTTT, but many could be found easily.

L4D2 has plently of bugs.
 

DanubianCossak

DaputinCozzak Specyal Snowflake
34 Badges
Nov 16, 2009
12.412
3.646
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Cities in Motion
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Darkest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
1) Half-Life 2, Left4Dead2, Portal... everything from Valve really.
2) As I said before, Muslim westernization is game breaking IMHO (at least if you want to play a muslim nation and westernize...). Also patriot rebels are broken in 4.0c. Colony construction bug too...

I dont think u can compare a first person shooter to a real time strategy at all. First of all FPS's play like a "movie" of pre set levels and a predetermined locations and triggers thats spawn, direct or whatever, AI bots to shoot at you. Strategy games are so much more complicated, unlinear and their content develops as the game goes (empires rise and fall) unlike almost every FPS.

Even if Muslim westernization is broken (i really dont know), this still doesnt make whole game unplayable. U have like 50+ non-Muslim nations in Europe alone that can u play fully troughout the entire game time frame. (game is called EUROPA universalis after all)

If i remember correctly patriots were never "broken" as in they didnt work or they caused game to crash, the only bug that occured was that if u financed patriots they would defect to you instead of the proper culture, which u could have avoided by not using that specific spy mission (spies still spawned on their own).

As for colony construction bug, i have no idea what that was, never ran into any colonial problems myself.
 

Buckmeister

First Lieutenant
30 Badges
May 30, 2009
260
0
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines
It takes time and money to "certify" an official patch release. With a beta patch you can just crack out some fixes and release it with the warning it's "as is". After a certain point there is no more money or (official) time to spend on a game and it's considered done, but sometimes people work on them in their spare time and that work turns into beta patches.

As I said earlier in the thread it is not a matter of "Shall we make an official patch or just let it sit in beta forever?", it's "I finished my main tasks and had some spare time to work on HttT last night so I'll release it as a beta patch". If you somehow convinced Johan not to use beta patches anymore the result wouldn't be more official patches, you'd have the same official patches and then that would be it. Beta patches are considered entirely "Bonus material", not a step towards another official patch. If you can't or won't install them, or never even hear about them because you don't use the forum, that is up to you, you still have the official releases. You can argue people should only release games with no bugs, or every game should be patched forever until it's perfect if you like, but it simply isn't possible.

IMHO the "official" response to this thread are the most disturbing aspect of it. This one is particularly bothersome. I read it as "We sold HTTT 4.0. Yes, it has problems, but there is no money to be made fixing those problems. Our time is better spent concentrating on new games that we can sell."

I don't think this was as big a deal with the IN eternal beta, but the westernization bug is important. The game is sold to people under that pretense they can play as any nation and that they will be able to westernize it. Not being able to is a serious dissapointment to many purchasers. Obviously, Paradox does not consider it that big of deal. That is their decision to make though. They have made it. Fine.

I wonder what criteria they use to determine what kind of an issue is important and what kind is not? I wonder what will be wrong with DW and whether or not Paradox will have the money to fix them?

I have read all the replies back and forth so please don't berate me with arguments about how I should be able to use the beta or should be satisfied with the official patch. All I'm saying is that one Paradox customer is wondering whether he should even consider buying DW or other Paradox games.
 

Merrivale

Colonel
52 Badges
Oct 9, 2003
800
2.390
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
It takes time and money to "certify" an official patch release. With a beta patch you can just crack out some fixes and release it with the warning it's "as is". After a certain point there is no more money or (official) time to spend on a game and it's considered done, but sometimes people work on them in their spare time and that work turns into beta patches.

As I said earlier in the thread it is not a matter of "Shall we make an official patch or just let it sit in beta forever?", it's "I finished my main tasks and had some spare time to work on HttT last night so I'll release it as a beta patch". If you somehow convinced Johan not to use beta patches anymore the result wouldn't be more official patches, you'd have the same official patches and then that would be it. Beta patches are considered entirely "Bonus material", not a step towards another official patch. If you can't or won't install them, or never even hear about them because you don't use the forum, that is up to you, you still have the official releases. You can argue people should only release games with no bugs, or every game should be patched forever until it's perfect if you like, but it simply isn't possible.

I appreciate the response, but you guys are being penny-wise and pound-foolish. You have some seriously involved veterans on this thread telling you that they don't play beta patches, people who I can identify as being pretty serious fans, if not outright fanboys, telling you they don't like this policy. And your official explanation is a major step backwords for the company, because it says that 4.0 was the last "official" work done on HTTT (release day, no extra money to spend on HTTT after release day?!!!) and anything else was a bonus. I'm not saying there should be no bugs, the current beta patch has bugs, I'm saying that major bugs like those that existed in 4.0 (no one has yet brought up how borked inheritances were on release) require a patch, which you did. You did a lot of work over several months and instead of reaping the reward of 4.1, you gave the impression that more work was coming, then dropped it, then gave the impression again that more work was coming, and now have apparantly dropped it again.

No one but you guys know your internal setup, but what I see as an outsider is serious overscheduling with these expansions. SF got quite a bit of work, but I guess now isn't going to get anymore and everything will be moved to the next HOI3 expansion. I suppose DW will be treated the same way as HTTT. I really hope you guys understand that for many people, the core competency of Paradox is the modibility of its games and the great support given to them post-release. This policy hurts you on both of those counts, and I say this as someone who thinks a lot of the criticism thrown your way is way overblown and who really doesn't play mods, in other words I think you should be given much more credit for creating incredibly intricate games, but I understand that a big chunk of your base, at least on the forum, doesn't see it that way.

Oh, and one more recommendation, don't call them beta patches if they aren't intended to be anything other than bonus material. Most people associate beta with a testing phase. If it's just a bonus that isn't leading anywhere, call it that.
 

OrangeYoshi

Mushroom Korps Field Marshal
20 Badges
Mar 6, 2009
9.722
0
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Semper Fi
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Legio
  • Iron Cross
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Deus Vult
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris
  • The Kings Crusade
It takes time and money to "certify" an official patch release. With a beta patch you can just crack out some fixes and release it with the warning it's "as is". After a certain point there is no more money or (official) time to spend on a game and it's considered done, but sometimes people work on them in their spare time and that work turns into beta patches.

As I said earlier in the thread it is not a matter of "Shall we make an official patch or just let it sit in beta forever?", it's "I finished my main tasks and had some spare time to work on HttT last night so I'll release it as a beta patch". If you somehow convinced Johan not to use beta patches anymore the result wouldn't be more official patches, you'd have the same official patches and then that would be it. Beta patches are considered entirely "Bonus material", not a step towards another official patch. If you can't or won't install them, or never even hear about them because you don't use the forum, that is up to you, you still have the official releases. You can argue people should only release games with no bugs, or every game should be patched forever until it's perfect if you like, but it simply isn't possible.

I didn't realize it was all free-time work.

That invalidates all the posts in this thread even more.
 

unmerged(66950)

First Lieutenant
Feb 4, 2007
271
0
It takes time and money to "certify" an official patch release. With a beta patch you can just crack out some fixes and release it with the warning it's "as is". After a certain point there is no more money or (official) time to spend on a game and it's considered done, but sometimes people work on them in their spare time and that work turns into beta patches.

As I said earlier in the thread it is not a matter of "Shall we make an official patch or just let it sit in beta forever?", it's "I finished my main tasks and had some spare time to work on HttT last night so I'll release it as a beta patch". If you somehow convinced Johan not to use beta patches anymore the result wouldn't be more official patches, you'd have the same official patches and then that would be it. Beta patches are considered entirely "Bonus material", not a step towards another official patch. If you can't or won't install them, or never even hear about them because you don't use the forum, that is up to you, you still have the official releases. You can argue people should only release games with no bugs, or every game should be patched forever until it's perfect if you like, but it simply isn't possible.

So is this the official Paradox position? That is so disappointing. The understanding between Paradox and us has always been that we will accept that the initial release of a game will be buggy, usually due to the great scope of the games. In return, Paradox has always patched the major issues and added improvements, which have been financed by our being willing to purchase buggy games in the first place.

The patched games have never been bug free, but they have been greatly improved and the major bugs fixed. Nobody expects perfection, but we do expect patching to the same extent you used to do. This attitude is a most unwelcome change.

What you now seem to be saying is that we have this great beta patch that fixes a number of serious bugs and adds enhancements, but we won't spend the time and effort to add an installer, we don't care if most of our customers get the benefit or not, and if you don't stop complaining we will stop doing the betas as well, since they are only "bonus" material.

There are serious bugs with 4.0c, as others have described. To not officially fix those bugs breaks the deal. I was going to buy Divine Wind, but now I have to realize that Paradox is not committed to fixing the major bugs that will inevitably come up, so why should I buy it?

Paradox, if I am wrong about this, please tell me, I want to be wrong about this. What has happened to you?
 

Al. I. Cuza

Field Marshal
109 Badges
Mar 23, 2007
3.161
5
  • Sengoku
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Dungeonland
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Cities in Motion
  • East India Company Collection
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
Paradox is not committed to fixing the major bugs that will inevitably come up, so why should I buy it?

Because, even though there is no money or time for more patching, they still do it in their pare time, thus giving us the beta patches you all seem to loathe so much.

PS: What's the muslim westernization bug? I didn't see it in the betas.
 

unsdeagel

Sergeant
27 Badges
Jun 14, 2009
98
88
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
you dont have 20 minutes to make an installer and put the patch on steam and reachebled for Mac, if you want i can make the stupid installer for free, i love PI and i dont to see it close because the patches dont became official, you are one of the few gamming companies that actually care that the game gets perfect, and the only that does this types of games that i love so much
 

Premu

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark
63 Badges
Feb 25, 2009
1.891
7.595
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Knights of Honor
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 500k Club
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
PS: What's the muslim westernization bug? I didn't see it in the betas.

It was fixed in the betas, but not in the official version.

In order to westernise, a muslim nation had to border an eastern nation and a latin tech nation instead of bordering an eastern nation or a latin tech nation.
 

Al. I. Cuza

Field Marshal
109 Badges
Mar 23, 2007
3.161
5
  • Sengoku
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Dungeonland
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Cities in Motion
  • East India Company Collection
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
It was fixed in the betas, but not in the official version.

In order to westernise, a muslim nation had to border an eastern nation and a latin tech nation instead of bordering an eastern nation or a latin tech nation.

A 2 second fix anyone can make... Super-ultra-gamebreaking-I-won't-buy-another-Paradox-game-in-my-life-Bug.
 

eleinvisible

seldom serious
26 Badges
Jul 23, 2009
996
43
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sengoku
  • Semper Fi
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • March of the Eagles
  • Magicka
  • Iron Cross
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For The Glory
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Darkest Hour
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 500k Club
  • Pride of Nations
1) Half-Life 2, Left4Dead2, Portal... everything from Valve really.
2) As I said before, Muslim westernization is game breaking IMHO (at least if you want to play a muslim nation and westernize...). Also patriot rebels are broken in 4.0c. Colony construction bug too...

I'm sorry, but being a Valve fan (and a bug-fearing programmer) I must note that their games have bugs too. Not on the scale of Paradox, but just compare the staffs of the two companies and you should see why... I've been holding out for a new complete package to buy EU3 at any rate so I guess this doesn't bother me.
 

Captain Gars

Lead AI Programmer
4 Badges
Oct 4, 2010
5.887
905
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Sengoku
  • 500k Club
  • Paradox Order
you dont have 20 minutes to make an installer and put the patch on steam and reachebled for Mac

The problem is that a lot of people actually seem to believe that this is why a new official patch isn't out...
 

Darkrenown

Star marshal
142 Badges
Jan 8, 2002
24.761
16.975
no
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Gettysburg
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Impire
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • King Arthur II
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Lost Empire - Immortals
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Naval War: Arctic Circle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Rome Gold
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Ancient Space
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Cities in Motion
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Dungeonland
  • East India Company
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
I have a feeling that there's way more people than Paradox thinks who buy the games and never visit the forums (because they just play casually or they just aren't interested in online communities) who miss out on all the changes you guys make in beta patches. I think it's completely unfair to short-change these people just because they don't know to register on your message board. They paid the same money as everyone else for your games and deserve the same support. Beta patches for stuff like Deus Vult, Semper Fi, and Heir to the Throne probably don't even reach half your audience. It can only help, not hurt, to just release final versions of patches once you're satisfied with them. The more people who have access to them, the less that bitch elsewhere about bugs. At the bare minimum, you should link to beta patches, advertising them as optional beta patches, in the launchers.

While I kinda agree linking them would be useful, it's not that they're a super secret forum only patch with the desire to lock other people out. If you accept the fact an official patch isn't possible when the beta patches are made then the forum is surely the logical place to put them. The older games like CK/DV didn't even have a launcher, the forum was the only place to get patches. I don't know, it just seems sensible to check the offical website/forums of game for a solution rather than "bitch[ing] elsewhere about bugs". Maybe you think we should make a greater effort to tell people about the patch, but I think claiming we "intentionally and permanently withhold critical gameplay and bug fixes from their customers" is unfair.
 

Grubnessul

Your Friendly Dictator Next Door
76 Badges
Dec 17, 2006
6.000
559
  • Magicka 2 - Signup Campaign
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Diplomacy
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
Muslim Westernization. Seriously, have you never played as anything besides european?

I have been using the beta patches since they were released?
 

Xnaop

Colonel
133 Badges
Nov 18, 2009
809
1
  • Rome Gold
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Impire
  • Humble Paradox Bundle
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • March of the Eagles
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Cities in Motion
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Europa Universalis III
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
Its not any sort of "anti-piracy" scheme for putting out beta-patches. We've been doing that for ages just to give you guys extra stuff quickly for free.

I need to see how many here never use beta patches, and how many that does..

I'm not sure that I understand what you mean. Do you mean that the reason that you put the beta patches under a subforum which you have to log in and enter your registration key for is so that you can tell how many people use beta patches?

Can't you tell that without doing so? Just by putting it publicly accessible on a normal web server as a standalone file, you could easily tell that information.

Moreover, by artificially limiting access to it, you're influencing the exact thing that you're trying to measure. Seems strange.

Or do you mean something else? I note that you say you need to see how many here use beta patches. Do you mean that you need to specifically see how many forum users use them? If so, why? Why is that more important than getting the patch to people? And more important than knowing how many people would use them, if there weren't such hoops to jump through?
 

Xnaop

Colonel
133 Badges
Nov 18, 2009
809
1
  • Rome Gold
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Impire
  • Humble Paradox Bundle
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • March of the Eagles
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Cities in Motion
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Europa Universalis III
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
When I first patched my Paradox games, I didn't even know this was such a big deal and I found it in a matter of minutes. This can't be to hard for anyone.

I assure you this is incorrect. I am a software developer, and due to the small size of the company I work for, I additionally get roped into customer support. And based upon my customer support work, I can tell you wholeheartedly and without reservation:

People do not understand what you mean when you tell them to "open up Windows Explorer". People do not understand what you mean when you tell them to "copy the files". People do not understand what you mean by "directory". People do not understand what you mean by "download the file". People do not understand what you mean by "save it to disk". Generally speaking, people do not understand.

Obviously many people understand things like that. But though it may not be as obvious, many other people do not.
 

OrangeYoshi

Mushroom Korps Field Marshal
20 Badges
Mar 6, 2009
9.722
0
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Semper Fi
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Legio
  • Iron Cross
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Deus Vult
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris
  • The Kings Crusade
I'm not sure that I understand what you mean. Do you mean that the reason that you put the beta patches under a subforum which you have to log in and enter your registration key for is so that you can tell how many people use beta patches?

Can't you tell that without doing so? Just by putting it publicly accessible on a normal web server as a standalone file, you could easily tell that information.

Moreover, by artificially limiting access to it, you're influencing the exact thing that you're trying to measure. Seems strange.

Or do you mean something else? I note that you say you need to see how many here use beta patches. Do you mean that you need to specifically see how many forum users use them? If so, why? Why is that more important than getting the patch to people? And more important than knowing how many people would use them, if there weren't such hoops to jump through?

I imagine that if he discovered people here don't use them, he'll stop producing them.

Which would be a terrible day for all of us.