Paradox Interactive Acquires White Wolf Publishing from CCP Games

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Abydos_1

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Got the news earlier today in my mail box, and couldn't believe it!! :D

I easily have a couple of thousand hours in VtM:B, so I'm really looking forward to a possible VtM:B 2 or something akin to Bloodlines!

:p
 

Gwyn ap Nud

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I REALLY hope the "One World of Darkness" is referring to a separate Video-game universe, distinct from either cWoD or nWoD, and that they keep at the very least the same writers and such that are currently running the show for the TTRPGs. Onyx Path has been doing a good job at keeping two distinct yet both successful lines going simultaneously.

I am a huge fan of Paradox as a publisher generally speaking, and given both Onyx Path and Paradox share a love for alternative distribution systems, and a willingness to break the "rules" about how their products are sold (see Paradox's DLC system and Onyx Path's PoD system), I think they could gel together very well.

The best situation I can see is that Paradox's various messages about a unifying world, one world of darkness, and a new Chief Storyteller position all refer to a new video-game line drawing from the strengths of both systems (the tightness of cWoD, the air of (dark) discovery of nWoD, the relative lack of terrible racial stereotypes in nWoD, etc), and that Onyx Path will be able to continue to do nWoD 2.0 (I'm not a cWoD fan, so I can't say I've been following what they've been doing with that, but from what I've heard they've been doing great work too). The best-case scenario would involve an Obsidian partnership in an RPG, and maybe a strategy game set in a single city, closest to CK2 with it's focus on personal-level intrigues, only even more so, much less abstracted.

The worst situation I can see is that Paradox withdraws Onyx Path's licenses as soon as they legally can to get their own people working on a single World of Darkness, in all likelihood based on cWoD more than nWoD, but makes it different enough from cWoD that they alienate that fanbase as well as the nWoD one. Lots of people are drawing up apocalyptic scenarios that paint Paradox as out to purposefully destroy the franchise, but I believe that the worst-case scenario is one in which they're well-meaning, but terribly mis-guided.
 
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ArcaneArts

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Hi, ArcaneArts here, eight year resident of White Wolf/Onyx Path, new freelancer working on both the Beast the Primordial and Changeling the Lost Second Edition properties, nice to meet y'all. :)

So, quick notice, one for both sides of the fence, on different subjects:

Onyx Path guys on here) Let's comport ourselves with dignity and grace over here, shall we? Yes, I know I'm the asshole who caused the kerfuffle this morning(Paradox folks, I am sorry about this, as an aside), but that asides, we don't need to go pissing in the cereal of people over here. It's rude, it's unneeded, it doesn't change anything-you know, let's all just be awesome people to the Paradox folks we're invading here.

To Paradox folks) Again, hi, nice to meet you all. Anyways, I've noticed a lot of you seem to be a little out of touch with at least the new World of Darkness property these days. Can't blame you-I read Requiem ages ago, hated it, thought it was drowning in its' own sorrow. But that said, Things have been changing on that front. The World of Darkness has moving into it's Second Edition Phase(as mentioned above), and a lot of things have changed, and in this one's not so humble opinion have become a lot better. Like I mentioned, I hated the original Requeim, but I found the Second Edition to clear up a lot of problems with that, and Werewolf's been given a stellar tune up. You should see some of the work that's being done with Awakening, Created, and Lost behind the scenes, too, with Vigil on the way, and maybe more asides. On top of that, the new properties, including still First Edition Mummy the Curse and Second Edition designed Demon the Descent and Beast the Primordial, are taking the new World of Darkness in new and interesting directions unexplored by the classic World of Darkness.

So, hey, I'd just like to invite y'all to check out some of the cool stuff we've been up to. I think you'll like what you find. :)
 
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ChaosArmoury

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So this announcement got me to actually sit down and learn how Crusader King 2 works. Looking forward to the next Steam sale so I can update my DLC. I'm sure it's worth full price, but there's a lot of DLC and I have very little money.

Anyway, I'm still ambivalent about this until I hear more about how Paradox wants to handle White Wolf's current relationship with Onyx Path and By Night Studios. Exalted 3 just got released after being cursed for two years, Beast: The Primordial just came out, Mage the Awakening 2 and Promethean the Created 2 are coming out soon and Changeling 20 and Vampire the Masquerade 4 have both been announced. There's a lot of stuff for people to look forward to and no one in the tabletop community wants to see that go away. I don't think Paradox wants to deliberately screw Onyx Path or By Night Studios over, but I am concerned that the current creative vision of White Wolf properties might get... marginalized, for lack of a better term. Like, you remember when Spider-Man went back to his black costume in the comics just because Spider-Man 3 was coming out and he wore the black costume in that? That was just stupid. I don't want to see the video game metaplot (again, lacking a better term) influence the tabletop books purely sake of it.

Aside from that, there's a lot of really interesting potential here. Forget about Classic World of Darkness, New World of Darkness and Exalted are where it's at.

NWoD? You can have a strategy game with Vampires trying to secure their lairs and feeding grounds, Mages acquiring hallows, verges and artifacts, Werewolves defending their territories in the material world and the Shadow, Mummies expanding their cults and tombs, Demons setting up agencies and destroying God Machine infrastructure, Beasts expanding their lairs, Changeling courts, Prometheans trying to fit in, Hunters fighting for their city block by block, etc. You can go with a full crossover, or you can can focus purely on the internal supernatural conflicts, like a Mage-only game where cabals, legacies and orders each compete for magical strongholds, lost knowledge and proximi bloodlines while holding back the Abyss.

Exalted? You've got the Niobraran War, the Shogunate, the Wyld Crusade, the founding of the Scarlet Empire, the Scavenger Lands, the Caul, the Realm Civil War, the Locust Crusade, Ahlat, the Deathlords carving out chunks of the Underworld for themselves and raiding Creation, Ahlat, demons warring for layers of Malfeas, Ahlat, the Great Houses, Ahlat, the Lesser Houses, Ahlat, barbarian hordes assembled and resurgent Solar empires. And Ahlat.

That's not even counting the stuff you can do outside the grand strategy genre. VtM: Bloodlines 2 is basically a foregone conclusion, but there's major opportunity here to introduce the non-Masquerade lines to a broader audience, and that's something that would be beneficial to everyone involved with the White Wolf properties.
 
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noblehunter

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My impression from the WW splash page is that they're starting a new line that closely integrates the big three. Instead of the oWoD spaghetti ball or the NWod braid it seems like they're planning a cable. I'd guess that's what they plan to base any games on so they don't risk confusing people with the existing lore.

Considering they cited the community as one of their main reasons for buying WW, I would be really surprised if they rocked the boat too much. It'd be insane to spend all that money then nuke the core fan base and start from scratch.
 
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Strill

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My impression from the WW splash page is that they're starting a new line that closely integrates the big three.
I can't see that happening. Mage is simply not compatible with crossover. Mages are just too powerful. Mages are designed to approach omnipotence and omniscience. You simply can't portray them accurately at a personal level in a video game, and you certainly can't make them function in crossover tabletop without extensive GM intervention.

It'd work on the Grand Strategy level, and mages can work as antagonists in an RPG, but never as protagonists. The entire point of Mage's magic system is freedom and creativity, and it's just not possible to program into a video game all of the possible ways that a mage can solve a problem.

Considering they cited the community as one of their main reasons for buying WW, I would be really surprised if they rocked the boat too much. It'd be insane to spend all that money then nuke the core fan base and start from scratch.
Then why are they so ignorant of the community? We have nonsense like this article, claiming that there's somehow a lack of communication with the White Wolf fanbase, when it couldn't be further from the truth. There's more communication with Onyx Path than with any other company I've ever seen. Then you have stuff on the white wolf website talking about "One World of Darkness", and "centralizing all aspects of the universe". Ridiculous statements like that are already alienating the fanbase.

It looks to me like Paradox only cares for Old World of Darkness. The statement in the OP of this thread only mentions Old World of Darkness games. That makes me think that they're just trying to appeal to the oWoD fans exclusively.
 
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QAOSbringer

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This is really a great news.
I am very happy for this development and can even say this is the best thing in gaming since Kickstarting of a new Torment game. Yay!

For me, best three cRPGs are: Torment, Kotor 2 and Bloodlines. And of course, my favorite P&P settings is WOD (especially Werewolf The Apocalypse). That's why I am crazy right now.

I really wish to see a few things from Paradox:

1- Make a newer version of oWOD. Use the same clans/tribes... that we are used to. Keep the classic apocalyptic atmosphere, but "the apocalypse" will not be the main focus here. Improve classic rules and make a newer and wider version like D&D 3.5e/Pathfinder, and please stay away from turning it to MMORPG-clone settings like D&D 4.0/5.0. Use popular designers like Monte Cook, Richard Thomas, Mark Rein-Hagen to create this version. And please, allow game developers to use any version they want: oWOD, nWOD or this WOD 3.0. Forcing only one settings to the developers can create half assed games.

2- Please create new VTM Bloodlines game. It may not be called as Bloodlines 2, but it should have similar city atmosphere, gameplay, theatrical NPCs, intelligent dialog options and deep varied stories like the Bloodlines. The game should be made by Jason D. Anderson, Leonard Boyarsky, Tim Cain, Kevin D. Saunders, George Ziets, Chris Avellone all together. Bloodlines was a buggy game, but I am sure each player who played that game loved it. It really deserves a unified development between Paradox, Obsidian and inXile. Source Engine 2.0 would be sweet, like the original Bloodlines did, however I don't expect Valve will give us any new Source Engine, but Unreal Engine 4 probably may work too.

3- I like how Paradox develops and publishes games. I hope WOD will be used wisely. Don't let the WOD rights stay dusted on the shelf like CCP did. They promised a sandbox mmorpg (a non-class based and non theme park mmorpg? WOW!) but couldn't even deliver. There was a cancelled Werewolf The Apocalypse game, only its cinematics are survived to this day. But other than that... nothing. WOD has a really interesting and rich world. I am really bored from all "ZOMBIEEEE" games, and today's fantasy games are very childish or light-hearted. But please don't oversaturate the market with small games like Game Workshop did.

EVE Online is like the EU of MMORPGs. I am really glad CCP and White Wolf has been acquired by Paradox. Of course, we have high expectations.
It would be awesome to have a chance working in Paradox right now. But I am sure playing (probable) upcoming games would be even more fun.
 

ArcaneArts

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Strill, stop lying about Mage, please.

Go make some tea, watch a rom-com, just, please, go and relax.

EDIT: Also, QAOS, have you checked out the 20th Anniversery Editions of the oWoD games?
 
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Varus90

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I REALLY hope the "One World of Darkness" is referring to a separate Video-game universe, distinct from either cWoD or nWoD, and that they keep at the very least the same writers and such that are currently running the show for the TTRPGs. Onyx Path has been doing a good job at keeping two distinct yet both successful lines going simultaneously.
Unfortunately, check the main site; they mention in addition to a games universe, they also mention a full range of media...
This sounds bad. But don't panic yet...that legalese also could mean that they're checking to see if they do want to keep Onyx Path going--and if so, I urge everyone to show them your support publicly.
 

noblehunter

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I can't see that happening. Mage is simply not compatible with crossover. Mages are just too powerful. Mages are designed to approach omnipotence and omniscience. You simply can't portray them accurately at a personal level in a video game, and you certainly can't make them function in crossover tabletop without extensive GM intervention.

It'd work on the Grand Strategy level, and mages can work as antagonists in an RPG, but never as protagonists. The entire point of Mage's magic system is freedom and creativity, and it's just not possible to program into a video game all of the possible ways that a mage can solve a problem.
Mages level of power would be why a new system would be desirable if they wanted to make an integrated game then. That'd let them build a magic system that's both free form and programmable without the burden of trying to emulate either of the existing systems.
Then why are they so ignorant of the community? We have nonsense like this article, claiming that there's somehow a lack of communication with the White Wolf fanbase, when it couldn't be further from the truth. There's more communication with Onyx Path than with any other company I've ever seen. Then you have stuff on the white wolf website talking about "One World of Darkness", and "centralizing all aspects of the universe". Ridiculous statements like that are already alienating the fanbase.

It looks to me like Paradox only cares for Old World of Darkness. The statement in the OP of this thread only mentions Old World of Darkness games. That makes me think that they're just trying to appeal to the oWoD fans exclusively.
I think the lack of communication was in reference to WW and by extension CCP. Onyx Path has a peculiar relationship to the WW properties that doesn't lend itself well to a press release. Especially if the details of the relationship between Paradox and Onyx haven't been finalized. Also keep in mind that the press release was likely intended for the PC gaming press and not the fan base. oWoD gets name dropped because it has computer games.
 
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Ask me again on the other site. Right now, you should probably take a break.

Gotta be honest, as someone who loves Mage deeply and has spent well over a decade playing the game, Strill isn't completely wrong. I would disagree with Mages being overpowered - I mean, they are at high levels of Arete/Gnosis, but then, so are Methuselahs - but they are remarkably hard to fit into a linear or static system, that being anathema to what they're about and all.

Also, accusing someone of lying and publicly calling them out when they disagree with you is pretty rude. If you're trying to present yourself as a representative of Onyx Path, that's probably something you should avoid doing. Not exactly professional conduct.
 
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Eggmansizzle

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I only care if this affects Exalted 3rd in a negative way. Hopefully there will be some kind of announcement or something made soon. I'm trying to be optimistic about this whole thing and trying to tell myself it may be a good thing with more resources and a faster timetable for the line, but then I also think that this could be the end of Ex3. Ugh even writing out that possibility has made me ill.
 
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noblehunter

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It occurs to me that nWoD and Paradox have the same expansion philosophy. Core game + optional expansions. That makes me think them going all in with oWoD is unlikely.
 
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Varus90

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It occurs to me that nWoD and Paradox have the same expansion philosophy. Core game + optional expansions. That makes me think them going all in with oWoD is unlikely.
If you think that didn't happen with the oWoD, too, you clearly didn't buy enough splatbooks. (I know I have that copy of "Dark Carnival" or whatever it's called laying around, and then there were both versions of Dark Ages, and the Arabian spinoffs of Dark Ages...)
 
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noblehunter

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  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
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  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
If you think that didn't happen with the oWoD, too, you clearly didn't buy enough splatbooks. (I know I have that copy of "Dark Carnival" or whatever it's called laying around, and then there were both versions of Dark Ages, and the Arabian spinoffs of Dark Ages...)
oWoD may have had non-canon splatbooks but it still expected you to keep up with the main plotline (at least that's how it was described when WW was launching nWoD). I got into WoD shortly before the world ended so I don't have much personal experience with the meta-plot.
 
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