Paradox Interactive Acquires White Wolf Publishing from CCP Games

[Quaterlife]

I actually sort of liked one of the ideas they had for the MMO, you start as a human and your actions determine how you interact with the supernatural, you don't HAVE to become a vampire, it was just one of many paths your characters could take. Try to create something like that in a Bethesda-esque RPG and you could have quite the game.

True, BUT, imagine a WoD set up like EU and/or CK. You choose a race, a faction, etc. and you go to town trying to keep the peace between other races and factions across the globe as well as keeping the Masquerade.

VtM was essentially a game of politics when you boil it down. It could easily translate to a frame of work like EU or CK in that you create a ruler.

So for example
I choose to take over as the leader of a Caitiff band of independent vamps and then go to town trying to fight the war for the clanless.

I could see it working

Politics good indeed be integrated into a game, and indeed you could create a number of tie-in projects like that. But the main thrust of converting WOD to video game form should come in the form of a single-player RPG, allow players to assume the role of chroniclers by creating content with powerful mod tools.

Speaking of which did you guys hear bout CDprojekt's GDC conference? Their dialog tools used very interesting tech, would be great for a WoD game.

 

[Eöl]

My worries about a MMORPG are as follows:

• No one cares about the Masquerade, players just run about trying to get XP as quickly as possible.
• You arrive in the game world, your faction characters are highlighted neon green, all other faction are also highlighted in different neon colors, everyone is running into walls and/or lampposts, casting magic constantly.
• "You are our one true savior," next character comes along, "you are our one true savior."
• "You're a charisma focused character with NPC back up/followers?" *snort noise* "sure we can work together when you put some XP in healing to bring my levels up."
• "If I join your group I'm never picking the lame puzzle solution FYI I just play this game to vent."
• "Don't go into, map location [insert map location] as [insert super hacked twitch reactions gamer] kills everything that moves"
• And don't let us all forget the temptation surrounding money: in the game there is a fake currency called Nihilism that buys basically nothing and a 'real' currency (called Cocaine) that the game occasionally throws your way. The game will constantly remind you that if you put real world cash in, you will receive a ton of Cocaine.
• "Dude, did you really work for all that gear or pay a Welsh gold farmer?"

That said I don't think it's impossible, a super hardcore rogue-like meets Dark Souls type game (but an MMO obviously) that seriously punishes players for breaking the masquerade/being noticed by the world or just not playing jyhad properly could work (no I'm not saying you shouldn't be Autarkis but it should be logical).
I think a good rule of thumb is when it's really hard to distinguish NPC from PCs and most players are using blood packs/rats/prostitutes to avoid feeding openly.

I actually sort of liked one of the ideas they had for the MMO, you start as a human and your actions determine how you interact with the supernatural, you don't HAVE to become a vampire, it was just one of many paths your characters could take. Try to create something like that in a Bethesda-esque RPG and you could have quite the game.



Politics good indeed be integrated into a game, and indeed you could create a number of tie-in projects like that. But the main thrust of converting WOD to video game form should come in the form of a single-player RPG, allow players to assume the role of chroniclers by creating content with powerful mod tools.

Speaking of which did you guys hear bout CDprojekt's GDC conference? Their dialog tools used very interesting tech, would be great for a WoD game.

http://www.pcgamer.com/most-of-the-witcher-3s-dialogue-scenes-was-animated-by-an-algorithm/

Very, very, interesting, It almost seems like a logical extension of the work Troika did varying dialogue in Bloodlines.

 

[Sandpit]

I actually sort of liked one of the ideas they had for the MMO, you start as a human and your actions determine how you interact with the supernatural, you don't HAVE to become a vampire, it was just one of many paths your characters could take. Try to create something like that in a Bethesda-esque RPG and you could have quite the game.



Politics good indeed be integrated into a game, and indeed you could create a number of tie-in projects like that. But the main thrust of converting WOD to video game form should come in the form of a single-player RPG, allow players to assume the role of chroniclers by creating content with powerful mod tools.

Speaking of which did you guys hear bout CDprojekt's GDC conference? Their dialog tools used very interesting tech, would be great for a WoD game.

That's exactly what we did with the original VtM game. We modded the entire thing. Models, skins, mechanics, etc. That's how I know the TT mechanics and systems would work for a PC game

If Paradox could give us a game that combined a dynasty building mechanic for a single character along with an entire world map complete with modern day countries, relations, etc. it would be a massively immersive world. I'd be all for just a "simple" RPG as well though.

I just hate to see a great property like WW's stuff go unused. There is some real potential there.

 

[Sandpit]

I wasn't talking about tabletop mechanics. Game mechanics. Different thing. And yes a large portion of that is visual representation.
So for instance the original VtM game didn't have what it'd take to depict the experience of a wraith character. Or a werewolf character for that matter.
And when scaling that up to the work necessary for depicting vampires, it's well maybe not exponentially more, but a whole damn lot.

oh but it did. There were several mod communities that created all of that visually and mechanically. The visual representation of their abilities wasn't difficult. The hardest that I ever encountered was trying to get the various transformation phases of garou.

I can only imagine what game engines today could do with that because we were working with technology 15+ years ago for this. There's no doubt in my mind that VtM could and would make a great online world of some kind. There's tons of solo as well as political and world-wide intrigue and politics to run an entire universe in that fictional world. Especially when you start looking into all the characters available and how they all have their internal issues as well.

Vamp Tribes
Garou Tribes
Hunters
Wraiths
Mummies
etc.

 

[Phibs]

oh but it did. There were several mod communities that created all of that visually and mechanically. The visual representation of their abilities wasn't difficult. The hardest that I ever encountered was trying to get the various transformation phases of garou.

I can only imagine what game engines today could do with that because we were working with technology 15+ years ago for this. There's no doubt in my mind that VtM could and would make a great online world of some kind. There's tons of solo as well as political and world-wide intrigue and politics to run an entire universe in that fictional world. Especially when you start looking into all the characters available and how they all have their internal issues as well.

Vamp Tribes
Garou Tribes
Hunters
Wraiths
Mummies
etc.

Have a link to demonstrate? I'd be interested how the modeled the umbra, spheres and whatnot.
Because the main issue is not depicting the entities themselves but their experiences.
Oh and I will pray to ahriman that it won't be an online game they'll be making first.

 

[Eöl]

For those who might not know and purely because this thread made me check to see if a new Umbra related mod had come out:

https://www.planetvampire.com/

Is the place most VTM:B modding congregates, although I've not seen anything that represents the Umbra.
(I'm glad I checked actually as there's a new user made patch out for Bloodlines.)

 

[Sandpit]

Have a link to demonstrate? I'd be interested how the modeled the umbra, spheres and whatnot.
Because the main issue is not depicting the entities themselves but their experiences.
Oh and I will pray to ahriman that it won't be an online game they'll be making first.

No, this was 15 years ago give or take. Most of the modelling and skinning I did personally was for vamp characters with a few garou models.

The effects for everything we did were fairly easy IIRC (again, this is many moons ago so forgive some of the haziness). The biggest headaches were actually remodeling some of the characters because we were using hacked copie of Maya and teaching ourselves as we went lol

It worked well for that game because essentially what Activision did was create a single player game with an online connection option. There was no "online game". The online game actually came about from the modders creating online games using the editor programs.
We also had GMs that ran and hosted the maps and such.

I agree, I don't want an "online" VtM game, I want a game like that again. Where the engine was simply used to hold game sessions just like TT games would run.

Split off into a bit of a ramble, but VtM was the first time I ever did any actual modding.

Star Citizen has potential, but there's no "control" so it's a sandbox. Nothing quite replaces the efficiency of having a GM control the environment to give a sandbox feel while ensuring things progress at a challenging rate regardless of the players' levels and abilities.

P.S.
The umbra was simply a map we created with various shadow textures and effects. If it is too much for a game to handle you can always do the game without the umbra.

 

[Phibs]

I agree, I don't want an "online" VtM game, I want a game like that again.

Seriously so do I. My nostalgia for that game is ridiculous bordering on the unhealthy although I only played SP, never tried the MP. Sounds excellent tho.
Not many of my friends had internet back then and it was mostly pen and paper for us.
But I get all of the feelz when I see, like, house de hexe or setite temple gameplay.

 

[Sandpit]

Seriously so do I. My nostalgia for that game is ridiculous bordering on the unhealthy although I only played SP, never tried the MP. Sounds excellent tho.
Not many of my friends had internet back then and it was mostly pen and paper for us.
But I get all of the feelz when I see, like, house de hexe or setite temple gameplay.

You would have loved the mod community for VtM then. We literally just recreated TT gaming using VtM as an online engine and to handle all the rolls and mechanics. It was great. I like my RTS and shooter game, but nothing replaces the complexity, depth, and and strategy that comes from a game where the action is turn-based.

I always liken it to chess. Chess is a slow and methodical game of strategy. If you try to "race" through it, you might win a few games here and there, but you'll never beat another player who actually learns the ins and outs as well as learns to think strategically in the game rules.

I'm waiting for Guild, EU, CK, and FPS games to have a baby that lets me control a single character/dynasty while still being able to play the geopolitical and war game across an entire planet, galaxy, etc.

 

[Phibs]

You would have loved the mod community for VtM then. We literally just recreated TT gaming using VtM as an online engine and to handle all the rolls and mechanics. It was great. I like my RTS and shooter game, but nothing replaces the complexity, depth, and and strategy that comes from a game where the action is turn-based.

I always liken it to chess. Chess is a slow and methodical game of strategy. If you try to "race" through it, you might win a few games here and there, but you'll never beat another player who actually learns the ins and outs as well as learns to think strategically in the game rules.

I'm waiting for Guild, EU, CK, and FPS games to have a baby that lets me control a single character/dynasty while still being able to play the geopolitical and war game across an entire planet, galaxy, etc.

You know Guild 3 is coming up, right? I'm all over that.
Guild 1 was my gateway drug. God I played the hell out of that game.

 

[Sandpit]

You know Guild 3 is coming up, right? I'm all over that.
Guild 1 was my gateway drug. God I played the hell out of that game.

Yea, I'm following their info and updates on Facebook. I played Guild 2 as much as you can play that game. I'm hoping they actually put out a complete game that doesn't crash constantly because even as buggy as it was, Guild 2 got me hooked and started me down the path to the Paradox line of games lol

 

[ikki]

Fang and Claw?
Decadent european vampire lords sit in their castles.
Werewolf mongols gather the hordes
A clash is coming.
Will arrows with silvertips and castles prevail over raw strength and nomadic warfare?

 

[Eöl]

The Order of Reason enters the battle.
Hunters of faith armed with light weapons
Focusing Moonlight into Sunlight.
A forest burns.

Actually this makes me wonder if we might see anything of historical WoD such as the Medieval period or Antiquity...

 

[Carmilla]

The Order of Reason enters the battle.
Hunters of faith armed with light weapons
Focusing Moonlight into Sunlight.
A forest burns.

Actually this makes me wonder if we might see anything of historical WoD such as the Medieval period or Antiquity...

That would be quite interesting, but in that case I'd hope they avoid tying every historical incident to vampires being behind this and that everywhere. That sort of thing annoys me to no end.

 

[Khanwulf]

That would be quite interesting, but in that case I'd hope they avoid tying every historical incident to vampires being behind this and that everywhere. That sort of thing annoys me to no end.

I'll counter your annoyance with my own interest in "medievalist illuminati vampire bloodletting intrigue"--keeping in mind that mere humans are just as dangerous as mystical immortals. I think you can weave a compelling story of hidden plots moving behind/with/in spite of the course of history, and I hope Paradox attempts this at the grand scale.

--Khanwulf

 

[Carmilla]

I'll counter your annoyance with my own interest in "medievalist illuminati vampire bloodletting intrigue"--keeping in mind that mere humans are just as dangerous as mystical immortals. I think you can weave a compelling story of hidden plots moving behind/with/in spite of the course of history, and I hope Paradox attempts this at the grand scale.

--Khanwulf

You can yeah and that can be plenty enjoyable, but I get tired of it pretty quickly when it goes overboard(which can happen much faster when set in what is more or less our world as it comes with a lot of baggage).

Granted I'm also the type of gal of who starts going "How does this work? Why is this like that? What do they eat? What is the support structure?" and so on at pretty much every setting she likes as I enjoy figuring out how things work. So if there's a crack in the wall, I tend to notice them eventually.

 

[Khanwulf]

Granted I'm also the type of gal of who starts going "How does this work? Why is this like that? What do they eat? What is the support structure?" and so on at pretty much every setting she likes as I enjoy figuring out how things work. So if there's a crack in the wall, I tend to notice them eventually.

Pretty much the only way to take a nod at reality is to have a countervailing anti-vampire force at work behind the scenes as well, or you quickly end up with humanity in the minority. There are other incentives that could be worked in to keep things under control, but none of the WW products use them really, in any effective way. Still, I think you can create a compelling play experience of danger for your vamp-chars in a kind of CK2 By Night game.

--Khanwulf

 

[Eöl]

The Technocracy, [Insert Yama Kings, Group of Mages, Hunter Group or Lone Hunter] regulate the supernatural world really well (and ultimately succeeds if Paradox/WhiteWolf is going where I think it's going, with the World of Darkness) and The Camarilla self regulates, also Werewolves tend to prefer the Umbra.
Of course the real reason why supernatural beings don't overwhelm the 'real' world and rule humanity is three stooges disease*.
(Although they already do really as Science is a kind of Magic based on belief, in the World of Darkness, light switches only work because people believe they do.)

*In this metaphor the diseases are the number of supernatural creatures trying to take over the world.
And the door is, well, humanity.

 

[Carmilla]

Pretty much the only way to take a nod at reality is to have a countervailing anti-vampire force at work behind the scenes as well, or you quickly end up with humanity in the minority. There are other incentives that could be worked in to keep things under control, but none of the WW products use them really, in any effective way. Still, I think you can create a compelling play experience of danger for your vamp-chars in a kind of CK2 By Night game.

--Khanwulf

Would be interesting to see thats for sure.

(Although they already do really as Science is a kind of Magic based on belief, in the World of Darkness, light switches only work because people believe they do.)

I could perhaps buy this in a completely fictional setting ala Sigil from planescape, but since this is set in the real world(more or less), thats to be honest just dumb.

 

[Eöl]

I could perhaps buy this in a completely fictional setting ala Sigil from planescape, but since this is set in the real world(more or less), thats to be honest just dumb.

What I said was really an over simplification a different way to look at it is this, Natural Science exists in the World of Darkness however it has to be enforced.
Before any invention makes it to 'sleepers', their word for normal folks who aren't aware of the Supernatural World (or even some people who are), a 'Prototype' is created waiting until it can be culturally and socially accepted by humanity.
Read 'Mage: the Ascension', it's really good and puts things a lot better than I do.