Paradox Interactive Acquires White Wolf Publishing from CCP Games

[Lubricus]

I wonder if it would be feasible for Paradox to licence out ONE of the the WoDs to Onyx Path, and keep the other one for themselves. In that case, OPP might continue to develop nWoD, while White Wolf can do whatever it wants with cWoD. It doesn't look like that's what White Wolf is planning, but if the fanbase is getting difficult enough, who knows?

 

[PetriWessman]

I wonder if it would be feasible for Paradox to licence out ONE of the the WoDs to Onyx Path, and keep the other one for themselves. In that case, OPP might continue to develop nWoD, while White Wolf can do whatever it wants with cWoD. It doesn't look like that's what White Wolf is planning, but if the fanbase is getting difficult enough, who knows?

That would be a very reasonable option, in my view. nWoD is very much OPP's baby, and I get the feeling PI/WW wants to build on top of cWOD in any case. The tabletop scene is quite invisible to the "outside", so having multiple separate "Worlds of Darkness" tabletop lines isn't really a source of problems (hell, even CCP didn't have any problems with nWoD while they were working on their own cWOD -based MMO). In addition, of course, this would keep some amounts of licensing cash rolling in, and more importantly, would keep the existing (large!) fanbase happy. Happy fans buy stuff

 

[Lubricus]

That would be a very reasonable option, in my view. nWoD is very much OPP's baby, and I get the feeling PI/WW wants to build on top of cWOD in any case. The tabletop scene is quite invisible to the "outside", so having multiple separate "Worlds of Darkness" tabletop lines isn't really a source of problems (hell, even CCP didn't have any problems with nWoD while they were working on their own cWOD -based MMO). In addition, of course, this would keep some amounts of licensing cash rolling in, and more importantly, would keep the existing (large!) fanbase happy. Happy fans buy stuff

Indeed, my thoughts exactly. What worries me a bit is White Wolf's "one World of Darkness" tagline. Not that I care very much about the nWoD lines, I'm just worried about what might happen to the community. And to OPP, I guess, since I really like them. Well, we'll see.

 

[Ryue]

A different option would be one ruleset (to bind them all to....oh wrong system but that just had to be)

And then separate books with adventures and metaplot.

Instead of 2 lines. Problem is from a calculatibg view that 2 rulesets eith sich similar themes always are concurrents to each other. Thus splitting. Into patafox does one line. Op the other is wuite unlikely.

Beinging them together ruleswise OR doing just additional metaplot books while the rulebooks for each line have no plot infos. Nthat is sometjing i could see

 

[PetriWessman]

A different option would be one ruleset (to bind them all to....oh wrong system but that just had to be)

It's not really a question of rulesets -- though that matters some, also, with nWoD 2e rules being a lot more modern and supportive of narrative themes.

It's a question of totally different games. nWoD Mage is absolutely, totally different from cWoD Mage, as are Demon and Changeling (at the least). There simply isn't any way to "bring them together" without totally rewriting the core themes and concepts in those games (i.e. without changing them into totally different games). Guess how much fans would like that? Yeah. To add to the mix, there are lots of people who like, say, both variants (Mage, for example), for very different reasons. Because, again, they are completely different games, on fundamental levels.

Mage: the Ascension has moldable reality, based on consensus, with the Technocracy (another group of Mages) as default antagonists. Mage: the Awakening has static reality, with it being a Gnostic prison, ruled over by the Exarchs, godlike jailers, and their minions. Ascension has sphere-based, semi-freeform magic. Awakening has (mostly) Hermetic magic. Other than the word "Mage", there is precious little common ground.

Demon: the Fallen has Judeo-Christian fallen angels. Demon: the Descent has weird, techno-magic constructs of a vast, uncaring God-Machine, with reality as a form of Matrix. Again, not much common ground.

Changeling: the Dreaming has its root in fairy tales and stories, and in keeping (mostly bright and happy) fantasy alive. Changeling: the Lost is a grim tale about survivors of abuse at the hands of supernatural beings, with lots of heavy real-world "abuse survivor" themes. Again, no common ground.

Vampire and Werewolf are most similar. There, some sort of merge is at least vaguely possible. The others? Forget about it.

 

[Ryue]

Shall i mention owod and nwod demons there?

Completely different in style and feel and rules still though essily convertable to each other as the translationguide proved. So a general rulesset could be possible. But lets see what is coming there for real

 

[PetriWessman]

Shall i mention owod and nwod demons there?

Completely different in style and feel and rules still though essily convertable to each other as the translationguide proved. So a general rulesset could be possible. But lets see what is coming there for real

Convertable to one or the other (as the Translation Guide notes). Not easily combinable. You can't have both a Judeo-Christian god and a Machine God as the supreme being in the game universe, and both choices have a lot of implications. And both games are heavily based on the implications, especially Descent. Most of what makes that game tick just doesn't have a counterpart in Judeo-Christian mythology. And vice versa, of course.

Yes, a common ruleset can be adapted (I'd vote for a version of nWoD 2e rules myself, it's head and shoulders better than the legacy rules in cWoD). But the ruleset isn't really the issue. The games/worlds themselves are, and they really aren't compatible, often on very fundamental levels.

 

[Lubricus]

I actually find that the two Worlds of Darkness can manage to live alongside each other because they have (slightly) different rules. The lack of compatibility sort of saves them both from blurring. Of course, Changeling, Demon and Mage might be different enough, but others, and Vampire especially, could grow to a weird mix of the two worlds quite easily if the games had the exact same systems.

 

[Ryue]

It showcases it though that they are compativle on terms of rules if you have rules for demons with and without bodies.

Thevonly difference then is the flair aka the fluff. If the wings are feathered or made out of steel doesnt matter there in the end

 

[Osprey22]

Congratulations on the annexation! Time to add those cores.

Kidding though, exciting news indeed!

This guy lol

 

[Reban]

It should be Old World of Darkness, It´s the one that made It big.

 

[theliel]

Mage: the Ascension has moldable reality, based on consensus, with the Technocracy (another group of Mages) as default antagonists. Mage: the Awakening has static reality, with it being a Gnostic prison, ruled over by the Exarchs, godlike jailers, and their minions. Ascension has sphere-based, semi-freeform magic. Awakening has (mostly) Hermetic magic. Other than the word "Mage", there is precious little common ground.

Awakening's magic rules are as 'hermetic' as Ascension's at the system level, it's just more honest about it. This isn't exactly a dig at Awakening as much as an indictment of how poorly Ascension supports its premise in the rules. The current Developer also has opinions on how 'Proper' magick works and if you're not a technomancer or hermetic paradigm you are, objectively, wrong based on additional M20 supplements. The focus on Process Based Determinism doesn't help - it makes 'complicated' paradigms objectively inferior under the rules (requiring more spheres/expertise) while making other paradigms *cough*Order of Hermes*cough* easier and more effective. I am hyped to see what Eddy's Masquerade 4th edition would look like and be very sad not to see it I'd almost dance with joy if someone who gets the idea of 'subjective reality' go a hold of Ascension and rebuilt it from the ground up to support that theme.

For those what don't know the entire point of Masquerade 4th edition is to reexamine the entire game, figure out what each bit does and what the objective of that bit is (humanity, generation, factions, clans, etc - Very much like what By Night Studios did with their new MET version), and then incorporate twenty-five years of game design experience into making Masquerade a lean, mean, vampire gaming machine designed to highlight the themes while removing the drudgework and inconsistencies. Also update the timeline to post-90's zeitgeist probably going back to playing up the punk elements since The Man is something of a current hot topic. The 20th editions were all nostalgia and limited the amount of mechanical changes, etc. allowed. The current Ascension dev (Phil) has indicated that after the 'death march' that was M20 development he has no appetite for Ascension 4th. I'd love to see someone with an apatite to make the game rules match the setting give it a go.

 

[theliel]

I wonder if it would be feasible for Paradox to licence out ONE of the the WoDs to Onyx Path, and keep the other one for themselves. In that case, OPP might continue to develop nWoD, while White Wolf can do whatever it wants with cWoD. It doesn't look like that's what White Wolf is planning, but if the fanbase is getting difficult enough, who knows?

That fanbase who have, let us remember, been the ones spending money while the die hard fans who refuse to acknowledge PoD/PDF publishing have sat out the last decade or so. It's not just 'pissing off your fanbase' it's 'pissing off the people currently giving you money for people who probably won't give you money unless you start publishing physical books again and even then might not like your particular take on the game' - I like the general quality of By Night Studio's stuff but I have some issues with the execution and I think I'd like to see a different take. I mean...the Giovanni plan to crash the world economy to cause 500,000,000 deaths to cause eternal night is right there in the clanbook - both of them. Having them make their big play, fail *hard* and then get marginalized would be serious fanservice. My issue with the BNS stuff is that they basically just acknowledge that Anarchs are pointless and create a new third party alliance for raisons. Returning to Old Money vs. Young & Hungry of 1e seems...apropos give the current political climate.

It should be Old World of Darkness, It´s the one that made It big.

Man - If people can't see the appeal of Demon: Burn Notice, err, The Descent, as a Deus Ex/System Shock style game or Mage: The Awakening as a Dishonored/Tomb Raider style adventure I just don't even.

I mean...anyone who doesn't think 'Bloodlines: 2, Vampire boogaloo' is on the table is delusional but some of the expanded NWoD games would make great vidja fodder.

 

[Reban]

Man - If people can't see the appeal of Demon: Burn Notice, err, The Descent, as a Deus Ex/System Shock style game or Mage: The Awakening as a Dishonored/Tomb Raider style adventure I just don't even.

I mean...anyone who doesn't think 'Bloodlines: 2, Vampire boogaloo' is on the table is delusional but some of the expanded NWoD games would make great vidja fodder.

I agree, and I´d love to see those come to light too, but if they are to make to a rational decision I think OWoD It´s the way to go.
Then, after many nostalgic fans from the 90´s have our fix, experiments can be made

 

[Kareruren]

I think my general opinion is make whatever sort of computer game you want, if its neat i'll probbly buy it. My steam/origin collection is pretty much the definition of eclectic, my most recent were CKII followed by Chaos Reborn...this might because frickin X-Com II got pushed back...but with all good things bare a little waiting.

How have alot of wod games historically been, the first vampire game was tragic...in the sense it was pretty terrible. Bloodlines was pretty darn good, and due to people patching the crap out of it has gotten better over the years. The hunter game was pretty much the zombie version of smash tv or gauntlet...it wasnt deep but it was fun. The werewolf game never got off the ground, i only remember hearing about it. So...if we end up with CK: the realm, bloodlines 2, Blood (pillars) of eternity or something of the like...im probbly gonna be pretty down for it. Nwod/owod...when it gets ported over to a video game, its going to at best loosely use the rule set so no edition problem from me.

 

[Palp]

How have alot of wod games historically been, the first vampire game was tragic...in the sense it was pretty terrible.

I really disagree there, redemption and NWN are basically the only video games I view as true RPGs due to having actual GM/ST controls and facilitating that sort of play. I and many others had a lot of fun actually role playing in that game. That kind of game is incredibly rare, and getting a new one like it would be really REALLY nice.

 

[Strill]

Mage: the Ascension has moldable reality, based on consensus, with the Technocracy (another group of Mages) as default antagonists. Mage: the Awakening has static reality, with it being a Gnostic prison, ruled over by the Exarchs, godlike jailers, and their minions. Ascension has sphere-based, semi-freeform magic. Awakening has (mostly) Hermetic magic. Other than the word "Mage", there is precious little common ground.

What do you mean? Awakening's magic system is just as free form as Ascension's. In fact the primary mechanics are almost identical.

 

[Palp]

Global is, yes, quite rare but Ascension has never needed global shifts. M20 codifies what was long implied - consensus is a localized affair that can shift slightly in numerous directions without going full direction in one way or the other. Sadly the only actual rules we have are for Demanses and Horizon Realms or some vague handwavy notes about how it happens. The whole point of developing cults and controlling academia etc. was so that you can shift the local consensus one way or the other, and when you get a big enough shift going you then a local shift then build on that and the entire point of the Technocracy's apparatus was to ensure That Did Not Happen because they were trying to yank the ladder up after they used it.

Now imagine a game where the Bloodlines:Malkavian experience was normal. Each tradition you picked changed how the world moved, felt and each level played even with the same 'base powers'.

True, an analysis of reality and paradox alteration through consensus manipulation would be good.

 

[WyrdHamster]

What do you mean? Awakening's magic system is just as free form as Ascension's. In fact the primary mechanics are almost identical.

I think he means that Awakening magic is based on Practices and Symbols, beside the Spheres/Arcana - and he will be right. I did not play Ascension in over the decade, but I remember there that beside relative dot levels of Sphere you did not take anything in the account. In 2ED Awakening you will be dedicated to assert Practice over "guiding dot" of Ascension - Compelling ones are at 1 dot, Making spells are at 5 dots, etc. And then you goes in to Yantra and Symbols to entrench a magic with it.

More about basic Awakening 2ED magic system to come are here.

 

[ChaosArmoury]

I wonder if it would be feasible for Paradox to licence out ONE of the the WoDs to Onyx Path, and keep the other one for themselves. In that case, OPP might continue to develop nWoD, while White Wolf can do whatever it wants with cWoD. It doesn't look like that's what White Wolf is planning, but if the fanbase is getting difficult enough, who knows?

Their best bet if they wanted to do that would be to withdraw support for Vampire 4th Edition and relaunch the other titles as the 20th Anniversary lines come to an end like V20 did. That would allow them to launch their own take on cWoD without ruffling too many feathers or creating any confusion, but it would take years and Paradox would still need to rebuild White Wolf's publishing infrastructure from nothing and divert resources away from their video game ventures, so unless they absolutely want direct creative control, it's really not worth it from a business perspective.