Idea for a possibly fitting system: Adventurer groups. Form them, watch them roam, give them quests, they clear dungeons Stellaris archeology style. Gear and level system?
Stellaris + Majesty: The GSG
Stellaris + Majesty: The GSG
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I agree. The character focus that people want in a fantasy grand strategy game would be on heroes and questing. The dynasty/genealogy focus of CK3 does not fit. Also people want randomized maps and a variety of customizable fantasy settings.
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I did not think of that but having you bind together fellowships to send them out to retrieve theekettles of truth or anvils of power to stop the dark god of whatever or evil undead lich king fits the theme perfectly and would add somthing spicy to the GSG game.
I agree that a "hero" system would fit well. But given the popularity of, for example, Game of Thrones I think that a dynastic aspect could also find interest with players.
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I'm not sure I want heros in a paradox style grand strategy game though. There could be godly characters for sure, your godemperors, or long lived vampire, or dragon king, or lich demon, but not 'these guys are stronger than everyone else because they're the main characters' heros.
What I mean is all NPC's should be fundamentally similar to NPC's of the same type. Not like in Warhammer Total War. More like Imperator: Rome.
Having said that yeah I don't care if you have a dynasty in charge. You could just represent a faction with interesting characters in it like Imperator: Rome. Though I would want to see some CK3 levels of character interactions with the world and events. You could play the current leader of your nation for example which could happen to become a dynasty or happens to be vampires or dragon lords and play by those rules.
So build your empire like stellaris, pick your portrait for its traits, add in a few extra wild card traits as choices (cannibal-vampires), pick an origin, pick your civic, generate a map and pick a spot on it then generate the rest of the world around you. Then you play it kind of like CK3 on nation leader interactions but with some more map painting fun or super tall play like EU4 or Imperator or Stellaris.
Bonus idea: Generate an underworld map through a tunnel network and a top world map and let you play between them for dwarves and goblins or hell spawn.
What I mean is all NPC's should be fundamentally similar to NPC's of the same type. Not like in Warhammer Total War. More like Imperator: Rome.
Having said that yeah I don't care if you have a dynasty in charge. You could just represent a faction with interesting characters in it like Imperator: Rome. Though I would want to see some CK3 levels of character interactions with the world and events. You could play the current leader of your nation for example which could happen to become a dynasty or happens to be vampires or dragon lords and play by those rules.
So build your empire like stellaris, pick your portrait for its traits, add in a few extra wild card traits as choices (cannibal-vampires), pick an origin, pick your civic, generate a map and pick a spot on it then generate the rest of the world around you. Then you play it kind of like CK3 on nation leader interactions but with some more map painting fun or super tall play like EU4 or Imperator or Stellaris.
Bonus idea: Generate an underworld map through a tunnel network and a top world map and let you play between them for dwarves and goblins or hell spawn.
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I think a dedicated hero system fits with a fantasy strategy game. It is standard for the genre and would unlock the lost potential of a character system in games like Stellaris. That game already has dedicated characters that are more central to gameplay than others (scientists), it is just that the game as is does not develop this potential.
What would a fantasy game be with a magical world to explore without heroes?
What would a fantasy game be with a magical world to explore without heroes?
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CK3 has 'hero's' enough without them being inherently stronger than other characters.
I'm find with god tier characters that can become known as heros. I just want them all to start out decently normal or have a backstory or special item or something to justify the fact that they're god tier.
Like how in stellaris the chosen one is a god tier character that shows up and has plenty of lore for why he's god tier. In ck2/3 it's essentially the same as Genghis khan showing up.
I would love to see great 'hero's' or 'villians' as crisis for players to play around or within.
The only kind of 'hero' I don't like it when the only reason they're a hero is because gamey meta gameplay reasons and not lore reasons. All characters in game should play by the same rules. Even if the ruleset allows for godheros to appear often.
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CK3 has 'hero's' enough without them being inherently stronger than other characters.
I'm find with god tier characters that can become known as heros. I just want them all to start out decently normal or have a backstory or special item or something to justify the fact that they're god tier.
Like how in stellaris the chosen one is a god tier character that shows up and has plenty of lore for why he's god tier. In ck2/3 it's essentially the same as Genghis khan showing up.
I would love to see great 'hero's' or 'villians' as crisis for players to play around or within.
The only kind of 'hero' I don't like it when the only reason they're a hero is because gamey meta gameplay reasons and not lore reasons. All characters in game should play by the same rules. Even if the ruleset allows for godheros to appear often.
I agree that undying "god-tier" characters are not as much fun or immersive for game play. I like how PDX has generally treated characters as limited mortals in other games. I think you are misunderstanding my proposal, perhaps I was not clear.
Among the characters in your empire, you would be able to select a limited number to act as "heroes". Being a hero would open characters to special actions and benefits, hero-class skill trees (fighter, wizard, cleric, etc). Heroes would have limited powers and be mortal, unless somehow transformed in immortals or undead. In this way, the game would have some aspects of fantasy RPG while being principally an empire management game.
Oh yeah that sounds good. Kind of like a more intensive and better version of knights in ck3. Maybe they could join the military or go on quests and do 'councilor' type tasks. Maybe the quests could be like the anomalies in stellaris.
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I would like an option to customize a map and current kingdoms. Perhaps I want to start with kingdoms already Preestablished on a random map or I slap middle earth onto the game and see how it handles a Glitterhoof invasion, allow us to get wacky
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I would be interested this.
I found it unsatisfying in RP Games that you defined your character before the game started.
I'm thinking here of Baldurs Gate but it seemed to be the norm for most RPG's.
I would like to see a game where your characters start with the minimum stats and everything after that is character development based on the guilds, factions or groups they join and then the tasks, missions and quests you give them.
In the games I played that had churches there was a church for the good and one for the evil which was unrealistic when in reality you'll have factions within one church.
As for Heroes. The world is run by bullies. Empires are built by bullies. If history is written by the victor then Heroes are bullies who won. God like powers belong to the bully who claims them first or kills the God who currently has it.
Perhaps a variant of Imperator Rome centered on the Trojan wars(1194 - 1184 BCE) with the Greek heroes like Jason, Heracles, Achilles and Odysseus. A World of Myths, legends and Gods.
Also the time of the Late Bronze age collapse when many ancient empires fell and new ones rose. The earliest archaeological evidence of a settlement in Rome is dated 900BCE.
I found it unsatisfying in RP Games that you defined your character before the game started.
I'm thinking here of Baldurs Gate but it seemed to be the norm for most RPG's.
I would like to see a game where your characters start with the minimum stats and everything after that is character development based on the guilds, factions or groups they join and then the tasks, missions and quests you give them.
In the games I played that had churches there was a church for the good and one for the evil which was unrealistic when in reality you'll have factions within one church.
As for Heroes. The world is run by bullies. Empires are built by bullies. If history is written by the victor then Heroes are bullies who won. God like powers belong to the bully who claims them first or kills the God who currently has it.
Perhaps a variant of Imperator Rome centered on the Trojan wars(1194 - 1184 BCE) with the Greek heroes like Jason, Heracles, Achilles and Odysseus. A World of Myths, legends and Gods.
Also the time of the Late Bronze age collapse when many ancient empires fell and new ones rose. The earliest archaeological evidence of a settlement in Rome is dated 900BCE.
I like the basics of this idea. As in that instead of "just" a fantasy world to play in, we could make the settings so that we play a in a mythological world based on a certain mythology. Be it Celtic, Norse, Greek or what you've got and instead of randomized stuff, like gods and supernatural villains, we could get special mechanics for example related to Aesir and Asgard or to the Olympians and Olympus on a map that could be based on the mythological world of said culture, or randomized but given flavor from said mythology.
If modding is anywhere near as easy as in the current generation of PDS games I'm fairly confident that you will see practically every big and medium fantasy setting back in some mod sooner or later. I full support your opinion that the game would benefit a lot with many tweakable settings when starting. For me the ideal scenario features a randomized map but definately not with symmetric start positions like Stellaris. Give me a randomize map with Ottoman empire style juggernauths and Ryuku style OPM's and just give us a choice before generating the map in if you want to start larger or small.
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I'd love to have the map generate a little history like dwarf fortress then you can paint on your own realm like making a custom kingdom in EU4, or just select one already there!
Best of all worlds!
As for a game about a specific mythology. I get the desire but I feel like to do so would make the game too niche and I can't help but wonder if that would be better represented on a map of earth rather than a random world.
Rather I'd prefer to have a game so flexible that such a mythology based game could be easily simulated with a DLC or mod.
What I mean is a base fantasy type grand strategy game with randomized maps but also the ability to port in predefined maps (EU4 can do it). And maybe the base game only has basic fantasy tropes like vampires and knights and elves and goblins and whatever. But DLC could mine heavily from specific mythologies. I would absolutely buy the norse mythical creatures portrait pack that adds in accurate takes on norse mythological creatures, playable races, inspired crisis's (world snake).
I would also specifically want to be able to disable or enable which monsters and species show up, even so far as to only have humans and no magic!!!
So having said that here's some creatures/myths I'd want to see inspire a DLC pack for such a fantasy game to enable even more scenarios!
Base game:
Fantasy tropes grabbag galore:
- Knights
- Elves (lean on historical versions?)
- Dwarves (lean on historical versions?)
- Orc/Goblin
- Dragons
- Griffins
- Lizard people
- Cat people
- Dog people
- Werewolves
- Vampires
- Genies
- Witches/Wizards (available to all)
- Platypus/Hedgehog people (good boy dev bait)
- Gargoyles
- Zombies
- Mermaids
- Mummies
- Unicorns
- Ghosts
- Fairies
- Gods
- Underworld (fire brimstone)
Odins Wrath:
- Extra work on dwarves and elves to give them more historic lore
- World snake crisis!
- Thunder inspired god powers
- Wisdom inspired god powers
- The 8 legged horse.
- Giants normal, frost, and fire!
- Cat-chariots
- Draugr version of zombies
- Giant wolves
- Krakens
- Trolls
- Norse based humans (valkyries and shieldmaidens)
- Runes (runestone magic)
- Hell/Frost underworld
- World Tree gates? (like gateways in stellaris?)
- Greek/Roman type civilization
- Centaurs
- Hydra
- Cyclops'
- Pegasus'
- River stix
- Cerberus
- Dryads
- Sirens
- Harpies
- Manticores
- Minotaurs
- Medusas
- Chimeras
- Messenger inspired god powers
I could just go on listing the mythologies of as many cultures as we can go.
Japan with the Yokai, Egypt with animal head people, India with the variety of hindu myths, Gilgamesh, Aztec inspired myths, etc. The inspirations are endless and I would heavily prefer seeing a grab bag of well researched versions of these mythical creatures. Using historical sources where possible over tropes to bring in rarely seen representations of these creatures/myths etc. And then play it all!
On the other hand if they wanted to just make their own unique lore fully original myths and species more like Stellaris I guess I couldn't blame them and would welcome a totally fresh slate of fantasy too.
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Might by what Arheo is GD on now that Imperator is on ice like Han Solo at the end of Empire.
Also if such a game was to be a reality, I'd hope for some loose Stellaris tie-ins. I mean space elves and dragons have to come from somewhere right?
Also if such a game was to be a reality, I'd hope for some loose Stellaris tie-ins. I mean space elves and dragons have to come from somewhere right?
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One of the big issues with these threads is people either don't understand or don't care about development.
If Paradox implements a complex magic system, they won't create an equally enjoyable way to play in a world san magic. That'd take too much time, too much money, and introduce too many potential bugs. It won't happen.
If Paradox implements a complex magic system, they won't create an equally enjoyable way to play in a world san magic. That'd take too much time, too much money, and introduce too many potential bugs. It won't happen.
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Entirely possible but this isn't a development thread for a dev team at Paradox. Its more of a brainstorm and wish list thread for the fans and customers. I hope you won't mind if some, like myself, post more of what's in our desires for a Paradox fantasy game.
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I think that it is best for people to remain at least somewhat reasonable.
Anyways, I actively don't want Fall from Heaven 3. I'd prefer a CK style magic game with a pre-made world and pre-made civs. Player-made civs and characters tend to be incredibly bland. I much prefer Geralt to the Dragonborn.
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I actually think most if not all suggestions have been somewhat reasonable.
As for the type of world either a generated or a pre-made could work for me. I do however agree in that a CK-style game would probably work better as fantasy is generally about characters, like most fiction, than about impersonal forces.
The problem with a pre-made world is however that would require a very good writing and would per necessity not be able to tackle the fantasy genre as a whole and thus leave out significent parts permanently, including favorite parts for many people, and with that kind of lay all the eggs in one basket.
Thus I would have no problem with a pre-made world and such. But I would personally probably like a generated world more for different playthroughs.
EDITED: And if we get a character focused game like CK then your game is unlikely to stay bland for long with all the craziness that comes from a normal CK game.
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A premade world would completely gut the potential of such a game. To the point that I don't even know how you'd generate hype for it or ever expect it to succeed. If they had to do a premade world it'd have to be based off an existing fantasy world that people like because otherwise nobody cares about some bland fantasy world and they'd need really high quality writers to make up for it and make a really unique world.
On the other hand Stellaris has more than proven the ability to make a great generated world with every trope anyone could want and so many opportunities to create the special world you want to play in.
On the other hand Stellaris has more than proven the ability to make a great generated world with every trope anyone could want and so many opportunities to create the special world you want to play in.
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