Paradox Develpers. Who do Lowborn Characters represent?

[Agrippa43]

I've seen various theories on the forums from those who say lowborns are commoners, while others say they are lesser nobles.

So, I would like to know from the developers, who do lowborns represent? Your local village idiot? A commoner? Lesser Noble? What is the intent for lowborn characters?

 

[Prime624]

Lesser nobles and commoners that stumble upon a title/importance are synonymous in this game. The lowborn are basically anyone important enough to represent with a character but not important enough to make a new dynasty shield, name, etc.

 

[Mixxer5]

This question is pretty good so I've another one- where the hell are knights? Yeah those guys in full body armors riding on horses, proud, honorable and so on? It's a medieval for God's sake! Knights would fit perfectly here instead of some "minor nobles" that existed in this time period only in Byzantium. As for game trying to be simulation of feudal lord life- there's plenty of things that should be in game...

 

[Velorian]

It has always been my impression that they are non-nobles. Aren't lesser nobles those who spawn randomly with a dynasty name?

 

[Dartheal]

This question is pretty good so I've another one- where the hell are knights? Yeah those guys in full body armors riding on horses, proud, honorable and so on? It's a medieval for God's sake! Knights would fit perfectly here instead of some "minor nobles" that existed in this time period only in Byzantium. As for game trying to be simulation of feudal lord life- there's plenty of things that should be in game...

As far as I know, the courtiers are supposed to represent knights in addition to various nobles.

 

[TheGreatSnoop]

This question is pretty good so I've another one- where the hell are knights? Yeah those guys in full body armors riding on horses, proud, honorable and so on? It's a medieval for God's sake! Knights would fit perfectly here instead of some "minor nobles" that existed in this time period only in Byzantium. As for game trying to be simulation of feudal lord life- there's plenty of things that should be in game...

Knights are nobles.

Your Dukes, their Counts, their Vassals, they're all knights once their armour's on and they imitate the action of the tiger! ^_^

 

[Mehow_pwn]

This game needs knight I will pay for it as DLC just make it happend.

And he can be a character that has no title instead a barony or maybe a building ect

 

[Prime624]

Knights are nobles.

Your Dukes, their Counts, their Vassals, they're all knights once their armour's on and they imitate the action of the tiger! ^_^

Exactly. Knights were the armored horse rider that fought in jousts. They also managed their realm and vassals and served their lord. All male nobles are knights. That's why nobles have a martial skill and lead armies. That's why there are tournaments.

You are a knight. (If you aren't king or above)

 

[dauncosony]

Knights are abstractly represented. I had this one event pop up about a knight and his property, who was apparently my unlanded courtier brother. I assume courtiers aren't literally unlanded, but some can be assumed to hold small plots of land (even a barony, but not a super barony which practically represents the game's baronies.)

 

[Zireael]

I agree with dauncosony, but the OP's question should be answered...

 

[HolyOne]

Your Dukes, their Counts, their Vassals, they're all knights once their armour's on...

...and they shave their heads.

 

[Portal]

Perhaps a 'knight' trait than boosts martial and signifies that the character actively completes in tournaments and fights in wars, similar to Crusader, and is obtained during the Tournament event or on participation in a battle.

 

[Frozen_Predator]

I have plenty knights in my realm as Brittany, the Frankish, German, Breton and Occitan cultural units represent the large numbers of knights in those cultures

 

[Olaus Petrus]

I've seen various theories on the forums from those who say lowborns are commoners, while others say they are lesser nobles.

So, I would like to know from the developers, who do lowborns represent? Your local village idiot? A commoner? Lesser Noble? What is the intent for lowborn characters?

They are homines novi (new men), men whose ancestors weren't nobles, but who have earned their rank with their own deeds in the service of their liege. For example many new men managed to establish their own dynasties of landed nobility during the Norman invasion of England.

 

[Mixxer5]

Knights are nobles.

Your Dukes, their Counts, their Vassals, they're all knights once their armour's on and they imitate the action of the tiger! ^_^

Knights are feudal lords (with or without own lands). Those guys look like some random townsfolk. As for epoch CK2 is trying to simulate, lack of medieval knights is shameful...

 

[Es57]

I've always assumed that the lowborn characters were wealthy burghers. It was not unusual at this time period to see some merchant families be actually richer than the local nobles. (Especially since a castle costs a lot to maintain.)

Marrying into a rich burgher family was often the best way for a declining noble dynasty to rebuid its fortune, as the son born from the union would inherit both his father's titles (making him a noble himself) and his mother's money.

As for the burgher family, a marriage with a noble house was very prestigious and certainly helped in the business matter.

 

[Xiathorn]

The concept behind knights is abstracted considerably - in essence, knights were non-hereditary landowners, in direct service to the geographical liege, be it a baron serving a higher lord, or the higher lord himself.

Remember that, when you grant a barony to a noble, you're granting more than just the castle. There are going to be tens or even hundreds of villages that go with the fief, and the Baron doesn't have time to travel around each and every one of them. This is where the concept of knights comes from, really - they were non-hereditary, minor lords.

The military knights you get from your levy is a way to get around this abstraction, in my opinion, as the wealth of the region would directly dictate how many minor lords could be granted lands, with the expectation of military service in return.

Remember too that your levy doesn't really live at the castle - they're troops trained and provided for by the minor lords within your fief - i.e. the knights.

As for the lowborn issue - I think that the thing about being new men is how I'd most likely look at it. They're not from some old noble family, but men (and women) brought to the attention of the ruling classes by merit. In many cases in the real world, these 'new men' ended up passing significant wealth and land to their children, and so on and so forth, such that within a few generations they were considered true nobility. This doesn't appear to be handled in CK2, nor does the concept of cadet branches seem properly fleshed out, but as you'll never be in charge of a dynasty that was originally lowborn, it has limited impact on the gameplay.

What is worth saying is that knights *can* be lowborn - a knight's requirement was that he was, well, knighted. There are many instances throughout history recording lowborn men being knighted, while very few instances of them being elevated to hereditary nobility (the peerage). Doesn't mean it didn't happen though - you might grant a lowborn a barony in CK2, but the majority of the time (I find) you end up giving it to actual nobles.

 

[Haresus]

Knights are feudal lords (with or without own lands). Those guys look like some random townsfolk.

You did not expect them to be wearing armour all day, did you?

 

[FieserMoep]

You did not expect them to be wearing armour all day, did you?

I thougth Knights were born in mail?

 

[Spartanlemur]

Lesser nobles are represented by the "invite young noble" option.

Lowborns are the talented or fortunate people who happened to get into the king's/noble's goodbooks and were subsequently granted land and a coat of arms as a reward.