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Hawk.eye

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This is a great example of what is so good about paradox - can you imagine this happening at Sega with ETW. etc.

I agree with the previous poster - we DO care a great deal about Paradox and HoI, and this is why we sometimes get a bit emotional. I am horrified to hear of insults and threats made against paradox staff - yes, we are stakeholders to an extent in Paradox and their work, but we do NOT have the right to do that!

I have to agree with that!

God knows, I have been critizising the release quite a bit (and I haven´t even got my box, should arrive monday, according to the "item sent" mail, I got yesterday) but I am only doing this, because I care.

I (we?) are well aware that there are not a whole lot of companies out there making the games I (we?) want.
This is the sole reason we are arguing so hard about it.
If there were dozens of Paradoxes or Matrixes out there, it wouldn´t matter all that much, when one of them takes a turn we don´t like, but there aren´t!

From what I read, most of us "critics" want you to do good and with our critic we want to help Paradox to do well. Now, our viewpoint may not be yours, but ís anyone realy beliving we would be doing this because "we don´t give a damn" about the game and Paradox?

So we argue - we argue hard - we argue a lot
.
.
 

Aleksei

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If it isn't going to turn a profit, he is going to want to put the game out as quickly as he can so he can start on a project that will. Also, Hearts of Iron 3 has already sold a lot of units, so they might be feeling they can safely distance themselves from it for now until they can put out an expansion pack.

This clearly shows that you have not been around for all that long.
 

Porkman

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To add my 2 cents.

Thanks for actually responding, that burst of accessibility and candor is unprecedented.

But when people are talking about things that were left unfinished purposely before release, there is one hugely obvious theater.

...China.

We asked in Dev diaries about this, and made threads about it all through the dev process and when the game finally came we get things like, Communist China and Nationalist China being allied at the beginning of 1936. This is like making Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany allies in 1938. Ten minutes and Wikipedia will tell you that this is wrong, hell, at least 1/6 of the people on the planet know that this is wrong.

As long as we're on the topic, Cores? Would you make Nationalist Spain only have cores Seville and Vallodid? Nationalist China and Communist China should both have cores on each other and the rest of China. How you make two sides in a Civil War allied and without claims on one another strikes me as willful negligence. Yes, modders can and have fixed it in less than an hour, but they shouldn't have to.

If the reason for this alliance is Japan, there is a wonderful historical event called the Xi'an incident where the communists forced the nationalists into an alliance. It will happen sometime in the latter half of 1936, before the declaration of war.

We don't start Germany and Austria out as one country. We have it done by national decision and event. Why does the United front have to be different?

My hope is that whenever 1.3 comes out, (which I assume will focus more on issues of historical accuracy than optimization) that the devs will look at what the modders have done to fix the situation and put it in. For HOI2, that didn't happen until the very last patch for Armageddon and that was a bit too long.
 

merlin2199

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I really dislike this attitude--it is the same one we got after the initial EU3 release. Very few people (if any) ask for an "exact timeline." What many of us want is more historical framework with plausible outcomes--real life leaders, monarchs/heads of state, events, and the like.

Yeah, I was singing the praises of the game early on, still has amazing potential. That being said, if I pay for a WW2 game, I want WW2!

The Operational Art of War was extremely open ended, but you fought the conflict and things felt and behaved as the real thing.

For now, I'm shelving it for a few months. I've learned now, did the same with EU3. From now on, I'm waiting a few months till I plop down good cash for a product I can't get much enjoyment out of till the fan base gets to it.

Watershed time for PI, their reaction to the fan base requests have always been positive on most occasions. However, I feel the philosophy is starting to shift to such a point that is has begun to alienate the core base while trying to bring new customers. Is it going to pay in the long run? Who knows?

The ai option, though originally very interesting, is very disappointing when in use. Why would troops strat-deploy from East Prussia to Western Poland when they are at the doorstep of Warsaw, and have that as their target, but I digress.
 

bbasgen

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It is a bit ironic. I think the HoI3 approach provides a foundation for tremendous historical fidelity. The whole logistics system is a good example of that: Japan can't steamroll India, Pakistan, and Persia now.

Yet there are many areas where historical accuracy fell flat. I won't bother repeat the litany, only emphasize that they don't just come in one area, but across a spectrum of areas (geography, diplomacy, leaders, ministers, etc).

I'm glad PI has provided such good responses in this thread: I too found the "exact timeline" argument specious. It would be helpful to gain some insight into the philosophical beliefs of Paradox Interactive regarding their historical theory for the purposes of gameplay.
 

Kakrenor

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As i read the development diareies and posts about HOI 3 i was very excited, at last a WW2 game that was not riidly scripted and would allow you to explore more of the what if's of the conflict.

what if Germany had launch operation sea lion before barbarossa, what if Germany did not declare war on the US following the Japanese attack, or what if the Soviets had stuck with their earlier alliance with france instead of signing the M/R pact.

These are historicaly plausible alternate outcomes and i beleive every person who has played any of the HOI series would have loved to see these and other equaly plausiable scenarios play out with ever game taking a different path.

Unfortunately it was not to be, when the HOI 3 Development team got rid of scripting they also got rid of realism and plausibility so instead we have what if scenarios

what if germany loads half its army onto unprotected transports and send them through the combined USN and RN fleets to invade somewhere on the otherside of the world, without being destroyed, attacked, or even seen

what if after 5 hours of game play germany declares war on no one and Japan is defeated wthin 10 minutes

what if the United States - a nation whose isolationist movement was so strong that even after Germany had taken austria, czechoslovakia, poland, belgium, luxembourg, the netherlands, norway, and france it still required the germans to declare war on america to get them involved - decides to join the allies in 1936 resulting in the defeat of germany within 6 months

To be frank the level of plausibility in the average game of HOI3 is so low that i would not be suprised if there was an event for hitlers interest in the occult paying off and him equipping some high lvl mages to deal with the allied invasion.

The game should be advertised with the warning - this is not a ww2 game and any resemblence to ww2 or the political situation of the 1930's and 1940's is entirely coinicidental and unintended.
 

unmerged(147960)

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1. Yes this did come out wrong, I agree. It was not meant to be patronizing or patting on the head. I meant that some things that people complain about are things that was in the basic game design, and that was a decision from the dev team, not a misunderstanding or a bug.

2. Yes, I'm fairly happy about the release. The game has issues that we are working on and that we are aware about.

3. No, we are not asking for the for our fans to fix things in the game (apart from the ones who wish to mod it, which we are thankful for)

4. It is ok to think the game is shit and to complain. However, calling me a joke (like a comment in the article), threatening people from the dev team (like has been done this forum and in other places) are best done in person. So please email me (email address found in my sig) and I'll give you my phone number and you can complain for free. Person to person.

Thanks
Fred

So if I understand it correctly you're aware the game shipped with fundamental core-components in a broken state (save-game and MP), you're aware that brokeness couldn't possibly have been unknown of by the developers, and you're aware that means they shipped the game in that broken state, knowing it was broken. Yet you maintain you're "fairly happy with the release".

That, sir, beggars belief.
 

coreymas

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....My hope is that whenever 1.3 comes out, (which I assume will focus more on issues of historical accuracy than optimization) that the devs will look at what the modders have done to fix the situation and put it in. For HOI2, that didn't happen until the very last patch for Armageddon and that was a bit too long.

Ah lets set the record straight on this one...

If you are referring to the HOI2 Arma 1.3 patch... Paradox didn't do it... The whole community contributed to those changes.
 

morganja

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Shaved head

As someone who has shaved his head every day for the past 16 years, I'm a little bit confused as to why losing a bet should result in a shaved head. The winners should get to shave their heads. We are a proud brotherhood, the unmaned.
 

plasticpanzers

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Thank you Fredrick for posting in the forum on this game. I really do love the basics of the game and what it can be. I think all the hard feelings are pent up emotions waiting for an exciting product that covers much of what we look for in a real strategy game. Alot of the explosions in emotions are from people trying to adjust to the game system and the bugs (there a few! lol!) which i am sure your crew will address soon. Kudos to you and Paradox for releasing the HOI series which i have come across only recently (owned HOI1 for a few years but only really understood it and got into it over the last few months and eagerly bought HOI2 just to hold me over til 3 was released!). I hope that the dev team can work out the bugs and some real issues of historical importance. I understand some folks want history and some folks want fun and some both but hey, thats a paradox!
 

nervi

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Nobody minds, that hoi3 is open ended.

The only problem is, the whole relations and how every country see other countries around them is totally NOT in line with the time at all.
A lot of countries would never join the allies, unless germany for example declared war on them.

Example: why would the Netherlands trust france and england?
However in this hoi3 OPEN GAME, it moves nonstop with the relations towards the allies. RIDICULOUS.

Netherlands was neutral in the first war, before that however, it has been several times at war with england and france.
So why the hell, would they move towards the allies?

Thats the problem with this game, it totally lacks the fundament of the timezone, we play the game in.
Its not open ended, it has an OPEN unrealistic and very simple BEGIN, which is causing most of the problems as well.
 

unmerged(87183)

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Nobody minds, that hoi3 is open ended.

The only problem is, the whole relations and how every country see other countries around them is totally NOT in line with the time at all.
A lot of countries would never join the allies, unless germany for example declared war on them.

Example: why would the Netherlands trust france and england?
However in this hoi3 OPEN GAME, it moves nonstop with the relations towards the allies. RIDICULOUS.

Netherlands was neutral in the first war, before that however, it has been several times at war with england and france.
So why the hell, would they move towards the allies?

Thats the problem with this game, it totally lacks the fundament of the timezone, we play the game in.
Its not open ended, it has an OPEN unrealistic and very simple BEGIN, which is causing most of the problems as well.

Actually this is fairly realistic, Netherlands would move over gradualy.

They started rearming themselves in response to German Agression, and worked with British, French and Belgian comanders to come up with a coordinated defense plan. Ended up not happening, there were to many differences of opinion.

Now if you talked about Hungary consistently moving towards the Allies or something.....
 

unmerged(18239)

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I really dislike this attitude--it is the same one we got after the initial EU3 release. Very few people (if any) ask for an "exact timeline." What many of us want is more historical framework with plausible outcomes--real life leaders, monarchs/heads of state, events, and the like.

Just what I want and found out I miss in HOI3 (as I did in EUIII) :(

But, I am perfectly sure this option will be included in the end, if not by Patch or DLC then by mods.
 

Fredrik II

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So if I understand it correctly you're aware the game shipped with fundamental core-components in a broken state (save-game and MP), you're aware that brokeness couldn't possibly have been unknown of by the developers, and you're aware that means they shipped the game in that broken state, knowing it was broken. Yet you maintain you're "fairly happy with the release".

That, sir, beggars belief.

Noted. Thanks for the feedback.

Edit: I am not aware of technical details of the game and I am "fairly happy with the release" as stated.
 
Last edited:

unmerged(18239)

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Example: why would the Netherlands trust france and england?
However in this hoi3 OPEN GAME, it moves nonstop with the relations towards the allies. RIDICULOUS.

In May '40, when the Germans invaded, a French division set out to aid the Dutch in their defeces. They actually got as far as the Dutch city of Breda before they were frightened away by the state of things on the front. But, the plans were in place and attempts were made to carry them out.......-> wrong example ;)
 

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Thanks for the open hearted answers and comments Fredrik!
Most of us here really loves what Paradox has done over the last decade, and hopefully will do for a long time, for the strategy game gengre.
And even if HoI 3 has issues at the moment, they are no worse then in your previous games.:p
So keep up the good work!



Ahhh, now I finaly know what the ignore function are for.
 

Aleksei

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Thanks for the personal snipe, but can you give me a reasonable argument as to why I'm wrong instead?

It was no sort of personal snipe. If you had been around you would have noticed that paradox has a very good track record of patching their products.
 

Firov

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Noted. Thanks for the feedback.

Edit: I am not aware of technical details of the game and I am "fairly happy with the release" as stated.

Hmm. So you are given no real details on the technical side of the games by your subordinates?

Out of curiosity, how was the release date determined? Usually, in a case like this where a game is released and is, effectively, just one big collection of bugs, I assume that the developer was forced to release early by their publisher (ex. Empire Total War or KOTOR 2).

However, as far as I know, Paradox is its own publisher, so that doesn't seem like a possible excuse in this instance. So was it you who determined the release date?

If so, that could explain why the game was released in as poor a state as it was. Since your comment seems to indicate that you are given no details on the status, or readiness, of the games that your company produces you obviously wouldn't have been able to effectively choose a realistic release date (through no fault of your own).

Basically, I'm just wondering how a company that is its own publisher and that, ostensibly, cares about its reputation amongst its customers could release a game that is as unfinished and has so many game breaking bugs as HOI3. Lack of communication between you and the developers could possibly explain this.
 
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