Paradox - about the German Reich's flag [NOT about Swastikas!]***read OP before posting***

[angelosnau]

Well, potentially a lot more than in Germany. China is a huge market. There are also people playing it here in Singapore. That everyone will just download it is unlikely, but even with that, the market is much bigger.. It will not happen because hearts of Iron is banned in China. It would not be possible for paradox to create a HOI that would make the government of china happy and call it a historic game anyway..

So it is still a good decision marketwise. (My view, naturally)

They've banned it in China as well? Wow,people obviously don't realize that this is just a game. Is there another game that has caused so many political concerns?

 

[Gamer_1745]

Wow,people obviously don't realize that this is just a game.

Is it just or is it a way of teaching history?

 

[angelosnau]

Is it just or is it a way of teaching history?

Teaching history?No way. Getting a better understanding of WW2? I can agree to that.

 

[demanvanwezel]

Well, potentially a lot more than in Germany. China is a huge market. There are also people playing it here in Singapore. That everyone will just download it is unlikely, but even with that, the market is much bigger.. It will not happen because hearts of Iron is banned in China. It would not be possible for paradox to create a HOI that would make the government of china happy and call it a historic game anyway..

So it is still a good decision marketwise. (My view, naturally)

I don't think HOI3 was banned, HOI2 was

 

[verzee]

The new flag is more accurate then some would think, the flag was used by the whermacht, only with the swastika in the middle (now replaced by the army cross). The imperial flag is not correct either and was openly disliked by the top Nazi's. I think they made the right choice in flag, personally I ve always disliked the imperial flag in hoi III.

 

[frolix42]

I don't think HOI3 was banned, HOI2 was

https://www.techinasia.com/china-do...h-about-game-censorship-in-the-middle-kingdom

It's not that HoI3 is "banned", it's not approved in China and therefore cannot be sold legally in China. Foreign publishers have to submit months before release a version of the game for censors to comb over and approve.

The pressure for quick approval is especially heavy on Chinese publishers wanting to operate foreign games, because those games have already been released abroad. For every day the game doesn’t come out in China, more Chinese gamers will sneak and hack their way onto overseas servers, denying the Chinese publisher its share of the profits. It wouldn’t be a surprise, then, if game developers were censored their games pretty heavily before submitting them to the Ministry of Culture to make sure that they won’t face rejection and the subsequent further delays as they’re forced to fix the game and re-apply.

If it's approval is rejected, it's an expensive process reworking the game to fit Chairman Mao's stamp of approval. I imagine Paradox submitted HoI2 in good faith and the reasons that it was rejected are absurd. Until China has a reasonable set of guidelines, there is no reason to submit another game and draw the eye of Beijing.

Specifically, the Ministry of Culture forbids:

• Gambling-related content or game features
• Anything that violates China’s constitution
• Anything that threatens China’s national unity, sovereignty, or territorial integrity.
• Anything that harms the nation’s reputation, security, or interests.
• Anything that instigates racial/ethnic hatred, or harms ethnic traditions and cultures.
• Anything that violates China’s policy on religion by promoting cults or superstitions.
• Anything that promotes or incites obscenity, drug use, violence, or gambling.
• Anything that harms public ethics or China’s culture and traditions.
• Anything that insults, slanders, or violates the rights of others.
• Other content that violates the law

With the above mandate, a censor can pretty much reject every game imaginable, though it does put Germany's laws in perspective.

The worst part is that with the DLC model it's possible Paradox would have to resubmit the game to Chinese censors every two months and rework it for every patch. They would be essentially be developing two versions of the same game.

 

[FOARP]

They've banned it in China as well?

There's actually a big question mark over whether Steam will be able to continue operating in China at all. AFAIK it's never been officially allowed to operate there, and new Chinese laws basically make it illegal for foreign media companies (including, possibly, Steam) to operate in China. At the moment it operates there on sufferance.

HOI1 and HOI2 were officially blocked from entering the Chinese market by the Chinese government. They never officially tried to ban HOI3 but this is not the same as actually allowing it.

 

[Gwayne]

I don't think HOI3 was banned, HOI2 was

It is a global ban and it will not be lifted until the game will stop using the flag of Tibet and showing it as independent , stop showing separist states in china and stops showing taiwan as being part of Japan. Because all of that is considered bad in china.

 

[Scutatus]

Nobody said that democracy is easy. A lot of people get annoyed by it,that's why they prefer censorship.

Democracy and free speech are too different things. And utterly irrelevant in a Paradox forum devoted to discussing their GAMES. Can I suggest that you are using the wrong platform for your grievances? At the moment, you are a guest in someone's house, and in the middle of a happy get together of friends in that house, you've decided to break the rules of the house and deliberately pick a fight with one of the other guests. Now, what of the householder? The one who owns that house, the one whose party it is, that you are presently spoiling, what should he do do right now? Sit back and watch? Or kick you out on your arse?

Paradox, the householder, is enacting his right to keep his own house a pleasant place. And is kicking rulebreaking troublemakers in the arse. Call that censorship if you wish, but that's what is happening to you here.

We are guests in Paradox's house. Respect the rules, accept the slapped wrist for breaking them (nobody's perfect after all - most of us have been there), and if you can't, well it would be a shame to lose you.

 

[Scutatus]

It is a global ban and it will not be lifted until the game will stop using the flag of Tibet and showing it as independent , stop showing separist states in china and stops showing taiwan as being part of Japan. Because all of that is considered bad in china.

In other words, it won't ever be lifted.

 

[OBRkenobi]

I like the new flag. I thought the Imperial flag in previous HoI's looked bland and tacked on.

 

[wildbillhdmax01]

IMO I like the new flag, and I'm happy their using the Rising Sun naval flag. I didn't mind them using the German imperial flag in HO3, but it did always struck me odd.

 

[JerkyJerry]

This is the Reich War Flag (Reichskriegsflagge)
From 1892 - 1903

One has to admit that it may not be 1935 correct however it sure is a hell of a nice looking flag. And it was the Reich War Flag and in game it is called "Reich" so for those reasons my vote is on this flag right here. This is a beauty.

 

[JerkyJerry]

The other one I like is the War ensign of the Reichsflotte 1848 - 1852

I like the white one better but this is a close second.

 

[Gwayne]

I would suggest that everyone takes these flags and offers them in mods. Then people can load them if they want. And it does not bother Paradox because they do not manage steamworkshop. That is what someone told me at least. That legally steamworkshop is from valve,. So Paradox doesnt have to manage that.

 

[Gamer_1745]

Partly because because of this thread I am going make a mini-mod with the flag used in BICE/TRE (shown here) for Germany that fits with the style used for the rest of the flags in the standard game. I like the one Paradox uses, but just to give players a choice of a historical flag.

 

[angelosnau]

Democracy and free speech are too different things. And utterly irrelevant in a Paradox forum devoted to discussing their GAMES. Can I suggest that you are using the wrong platform for your grievances? At the moment, you are a guest in someone's house, and in the middle of a happy get together of friends in that house, you've decided to break the rules of the house and deliberately pick a fight with one of the other guests. Now, what of the householder? The one who owns that house, the one whose party it is, that you are presently spoiling, what should he do do right now? Sit back and watch? Or kick you out on your arse?

Paradox, the householder, is enacting his right to keep his own house a pleasant place. And is kicking rulebreaking troublemakers in the arse. Call that censorship if you wish, but that's what is happening to you here.

We are guests in Paradox's house. Respect the rules, accept the slapped wrist for breaking them (nobody's perfect after all - most of us have been there), and if you can't, well it would be a shame to lose you.

Not picking up a fight with anyone,although you seem very eager to do so. Democracy is all about free speech. It is the most fundamental pillar of democracy.

 

[Scutatus]

Not picking up a fight with anyone,although you seem very eager to do so. Democracy is all about free speech. It is the most fundamental pillar of democracy.

No. It's not. You misunderstand democracy completely if you truly think that.

Democracy is about having a say in who represents you in the policies and politics and leadership of the land.

Free speech is about having the freedom to say what you wish without being obstructed.

Hard as it is to believe (apparently) the two are NOT the same thing.

It is entirely possible to have a democracy that clamps down on free speech - indeed, we've seen it happen in our own lifetimes
(at least twice in the last century, a certain rather powerful western democracy has been known to label anyone who didn't toe the official leadership line as "traitors" - sometimes going so far as to demonise, show trial and banish said accused, unjustly ruining lives and reputations in the process).
It is also possible to have a tyranny that allows anyone to say as they wish so long as they do not break the law.Unlikely, but possible.

And it is very very very likely to have a democracy that imposes restrictions on what is and isn't acceptable behaviour. Very likely, because that is how democracies have to behave unless they want complete anarchy. Such impositions are called the law. you know, those "rules" you don't like.

But as I said before, this is irrelevant to the Paradox forum, except in the sense that we respect Paradox and obey their rules, or we accept the consequences that they are completely in their rights to impose.

 

[George Parr]

Not picking up a fight with anyone,although you seem very eager to do so. Democracy is all about free speech. It is the most fundamental pillar of democracy.

"Free speech" has nothing to do with wthat.

All freedom of speech does, is allow you to speak your mind without having to fear persecution by the government. In no way, shape or form has it any impact on what private people or corporations allow on their property. It does not protect you from other people reacting to your opinion, nor does it grant you the right to say whatever you want wherever you want. You are currently on Paradox' private property, they are free to remove anyone from their property for whatever reason they can come up with. They do not have to tolerate anyone's opinion or allow you to voice yours if they don't want to. None of that violates freedom of speech in any way, nor is it censorship.

 

[anam]

Hmm i like the new flag. Better than the old they used anyway.

And offtopic : I live in a country that doesn't have democracy, but have free speech. Oh and then we have democracy too. But really as i live in a Monarchy with parlamentarism....it's easy to get confused
So no Democracy/Free speech is not the same thing.