Paradox - about the German Reich's flag [NOT about Swastikas!]***read OP before posting***

[Gamer_1745]

A Real Historical Alternative Flag

From the TRE thread:

A little about the flag used as the graphic for TRE and country flag for Germany in BlackICE. It is a real historical flag, but not a political one. The Balkenkreuz flag was often used as an aerial vehicle identification flag. Not all Germans were Nazis, but they needed a flag easily recognized from the air. I wanted a flag that reminded people of the Third Reich, but I didn't feel the need to have the swastika as a symbol for my mod. Below is a photo of a real one from the war.

They were generally one sided.

They had grommets on all four corners to be able to tie them down and the flag in use during WWII.


The word Balkenkreuz is often incorrectly translated as the "Balkan Cross", however there is no relation to the Balkans. The adjective "Balkan" in German is "balkanisch." A "Balken" is a wooden beam or girder. More correct translations would be "beam cross", "bar cross"[or "balk cross". Nevertheless, the design is still commonly called the Balkan Cross in English.

 

[Gamengervi]

heya, gamengervi, if you're still reading this topic, yes, a mod that replaces the game's german flag with a historically accurate NSDAP/WW2 german war flag can and will be allowed on steam's workshop. i don't see why someone would think if it's not allowed here it's not allowed on steam, since they have entirely different policies on what's allowed and what's not (which i have no problem with!), but i've seen a fair share of swastika/NSDAP symbol mods on steam workshop for various games, even civ v has a certain workshop item that adds in a certain führer into the game, and it's been around for some time, even stellaris has an NSDAP symbol mod!

so, yes, guys, chances are a historically accurate flag mod will even be maybe one of the first mods to come out on the steam workshop. if you're looking for some flag accuracy, i wouldn't worry. also, sorry if i did interrupt any discussion, and i don't support/encourage any type of NSDAP/national socialist symbolism outside of games like these.

also i'm not a fan of, nor am i one of those guys that go 'wait for the mods to come out!', but honestly a flag pack for this game will probably only be like some MB at most, i'm sure it'll be fine

Thanks you very much for your response. I'm looking forward to a historical flag mod. Hopefully there will be one for Communist China too if Paradox hasn't already switched it to the proper, non-PRC flag.

A Real Historical Alternative Flag

From the TRE thread:

A little about the flag used as the graphic for TRE and country flag for Germany in BlackICE. It is a real historical flag, but not a political one. The Balkenkreuz flag was often used as an aerial vehicle identification flag. Not all Germans were Nazis, but they needed a flag easily recognized from the air. I wanted a flag that reminded people of the Third Reich, but I didn't feel the need to have the swastika as a symbol for my mod. Below is a photo of a real one from the war.

They were generally one sided.

They had grommets on all four corners to be able to tie them down and the flag in use during WWII.


The word Balkenkreuz is often incorrectly translated as the "Balkan Cross", however there is no relation to the Balkans. The adjective "Balkan" in German is "balkanisch." A "Balken" is a wooden beam or girder. More correct translations would be "beam cross", "bar cross"[or "balk cross". Nevertheless, the design is still commonly called the Balkan Cross in English.

Isn't the insignia on that flag banned in Germany? The German version of Wolfenstein: The New Order had replaced them with the with an alternate insignia.

 

[Gamer_1745]

Isn't the insignia on that flag banned in Germany? The German version of Wolfenstein: The New Order had replaced them with the with an alternate insignia.

Not that I know of. The German Army uses a version of it today (not the red part but the Balkenkreuz ).

 

[demanvanwezel]

Thanks you very much for your response. I'm looking forward to a historical flag mod. Hopefully there will be one for Communist China too if Paradox hasn't already switched it to the proper, non-PRC flag.


Isn't the insignia on that flag banned in Germany? The German version of Wolfenstein: The New Order had replaced them with the with an alternate insignia.

wasn't that mostly because the bundeswehr uses that symbol today and don't want it to be used as a nazi symbol?

(the baltenkreuz was never a nazi symbol, it was a german army symbol)

 

[Gamer_1745]

wasn't that mostly because the bundeswehr uses that symbol today and don't want it to be used as a nazi symbol?

(the baltenkreuz was never a nazi symbol, it was a german army symbol)

And remember Wolfenstein: The New Order is a fantasy game and HoI is a historical game (so is my mod).

 

[demanvanwezel]

And remember Wolfenstein: The New Order is a fantasy game and HoI is a historical game (so is my mod).

oh, I agree with your mod since it's an army game and the baltenkreuz is an army symbol, while in wolfenstein the new order it's used as a similar substitute to the swastika on things like government buildings etc

 

[Gamengervi]

Not that I know of. The German Army uses a version of it today (not the red part but the Balkenkreuz ).

wasn't that mostly because the bundeswehr uses that symbol today and don't want it to be used as a nazi symbol?

(the baltenkreuz was never a nazi symbol, it was a german army symbol)

I'm not sure about the reason. All I know is that the Panzerhunds had the symbol (the Wehrmacht emblem?) featured on them in the standard version, but they were replaced by this symbol in the German version. It's the same symbol that replaced the swastika. I don't know why it would be illegal and after some further research I don't think it is. Maybe it was replaced for the reason you've stated. It seems to make sense. Or perhaps they were just being overly cautious.

 

[Gwayne]

I wonder if anybody realised that hoi is illegal in china... Because they show china divided in different states. What China does not like.

It's not like that paradox does listen to everyone

 

[DanTheKraut]

The Balkenkreuz isn't forbidden in Germany. The Wehrmacht used it in the Third Reich but the Wehrmacht wasn't declared as criminal organisation like the SS or Gestapo. The Wolfsangel as example is a forbidden symbol (falls under 86a of the German criminal code) if used for Nazi purpose but it can also be found in flags and signs of several German cities so if it is not used for Nazi purpose it is not banned The Sigrune on the other hand is forbidden in any way. You see the paragraph 86a of the German criminal code is a bit more complicated than people think and not all symbols used by the Nazis are forbidden for public display.

Bethesda didn't use the Balkenkreuz because they didn't want to show any connection between Nazis and "the Regime" (that's how the Nazis are called in the German Edition).

 

[jalapen0]

I wonder if anybody realised that hoi is illegal in china... Because they show china divided in different states. What China does not like.

It's not like that paradox does listen to everyone

Not like they legitimately sell alot of copies in China.

 

[Gamer_1745]

Not like they legitimately sell alot of copies in China.

Yes, some markets are just not worth going after. I don't think they are concerned about N. Korea's laws.

 

[AlfredMV]

A Real Historical Alternative Flag

From the TRE thread:

A little about the flag used as the graphic for TRE and country flag for Germany in BlackICE. It is a real historical flag, but not a political one. The Balkenkreuz flag was often used as an aerial vehicle identification flag. Not all Germans were Nazis, but they needed a flag easily recognized from the air. I wanted a flag that reminded people of the Third Reich, but I didn't feel the need to have the swastika as a symbol for my mod. Below is a photo of a real one from the war.

They were generally one sided.

They had grommets on all four corners to be able to tie them down and the flag in use during WWII.


The word Balkenkreuz is often incorrectly translated as the "Balkan Cross", however there is no relation to the Balkans. The adjective "Balkan" in German is "balkanisch." A "Balken" is a wooden beam or girder. More correct translations would be "beam cross", "bar cross"[or "balk cross". Nevertheless, the design is still commonly called the Balkan Cross in English.

I agree with this flag but I like the one paradox made also, very nazi like. I am confused why they didn't just take the real flag and swap in the cross.

 

[Nicolas I]

And this thread was not supposed to be about swastikas...

As wrote Berthold Brecht:

The world was almost won by such an ape!
The nations put him where his kind belong.
But don't rejoice too soon at your escape.
The womb he crawled from is still going strong.

 

[Nicolas I]

....The swastika...is an ancient religious symbol...commonly used as a religious symbol in Hinduism and Buddhism...!

I'm not sure that the proliferating threads on this forum about nazi symbols can be explained by a sudden burst of asian religions fanatics...

 

[Ryltar]

just alittle side note, and apologice to make this little remark, but it needs to be said...

its a grave insult to allow the Swastica to not be used, its a anchient symbol that been used for many thousends of year... that preceedes most nations in europe... its a real shame its even taken up in the conetext of the pitty 10years it was missused...

The swastika (also known as the gammadion cross, cross cramponnée, or wanzi) (as a character: 卐 or 卍) is an ancient religious symbol that generally takes the form of an equilateral cross, with its four legs bent at 90 degrees. It is considered to be a sacred and auspicious symbol in Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism and dates back to before 2nd century B.C.

It has been used as a decorative element in various cultures since at least the NEOLITHIC. It is known most widely as an important symbol long used in Indian religions, denoting "auspiciousness.

It continues to be commonly used as a religious symbol in Hinduism and Buddhism.

Western literature's older term for the symbol, gammadion cross, derives mainly from its appearance, which is identical to four Greek gamma letters affixed to each other. The name swastika comes from the Sanskrit word svastika (Devanāgarī: स्वस्तिक), meaning "lucky or auspicious object".

Shame on you !

If people don't have reasonable arguments they start using religion.

The symbol IS problematical in the historical context here. In a forum about WW2 nobody thinks of religion when talking about swastikas. As nobody would think in this context the Star of David could also be the symbol of brewers.

 

[Scutatus]

True facts are erased without even a notification from the forum. Democracy at its best.

Their forum, their rules. We all need to abide by the rules, and if we don't, there's no point complaining when Paradox step in.

They don't HAVE to let us say anything at all here you know. They are actually remarkably generous. Paradox could justifiably step in a lot more than they do - but instead often practice commendable restraint. Democracy isn't the permission to start fights without consequences - especially if you are doing it as a guest in someone's "house." I think you have the word Democracy somewhat confused.

 

[Had a dad]

Heed the request of the OP. This is not an option, any further discussion of Swastikas will be auto deleted and infracted

 

[angelosnau]

Their forum, their rules. We all need to abide by the rules, and if we don't, there's no point complaining when Paradox step in.

They don't HAVE to let us say anything at all here you know. They are actually remarkably generous. Paradox could justifiably step in a lot more than they do - but instead often practice commendable restraint. Democracy isn't the permission to start fights without consequences - especially if you are doing it as a guest in someone's "house." I think you have the word Democracy somewhat confused.

Nobody said that democracy is easy. A lot of people get annoyed by it,that's why they prefer censorship.

 

[Gwayne]

Well, this is not a free speech platform Its the website of a commercial company.
So I do not really consider it censorship.

 

[Gwayne]

Not like they legitimately sell alot of copies in China.

Well, potentially a lot more than in Germany. China is a huge market. There are also people playing it here in Singapore. That everyone will just download it is unlikely, but even with that, the market is much bigger.. It will not happen because hearts of Iron is banned in China. It would not be possible for paradox to create a HOI that would make the government of china happy and call it a historic game anyway..

So it is still a good decision marketwise. (My view, naturally)