Paradox - about the German Reich's flag [NOT about Swastikas!]***read OP before posting***

[Sleight of Hand]

@podcat @Darkrenown

I'll paste this from another post I wrote in another thread:

To me, the biggest offender is the Fascist Germany flag, and not because it doesn't have a Swastika on. I completely understand why Paradox do not want Swastikas in their games, and I absolutely respect that decision. My problem with the Fascist Germany flag is that it is an awful, non-existent bastardized design of a flag. I understand that it is vaguely based on the Wehrmacht war ensign, but it just looks awkward as it is neither accurate nor especially stylish. In previous Hearts of Iron games Paradox chose to represent Germany with the old imperial flag, which was (along with the Swastika) the official flag of the Third Reich until 1935. This was a clear, logical and sensible choice, and one which I wish they had continued with.

IMO, Germany should use the old imperial flag for fascism, and the modern Bundesflagge for neutral/democratic.

Can I ask what the reason for this change was, and whether it will be reverted? I realize that you would like to have different flags for different ideologies - hence the Rising Sun flag for Fascist Japan - but there is no reason to invent fictional flags when perfectly good historical ones are already available, and the imperial flag continues to be used by far-right movements in Germany today (because it is not illegal).

Was there a particular reason you stopped using the old imperial flag? If wishing to avoid the Swastika, it is certainly the best choice for the German Reich.

I just wondered if you could maybe consider this, or at least give an answer either way. Thanks.

Heed the request of the OP. This is not an option, any further discussion of Swastikas will be auto deleted and infracted - Had a dad

 

[LordOfWar16]

You can quiet easiely mod it and swap out the flag quiet easiely. The flag might not be accurate, but the old imperial one wouldnt be accurate for that time either. All they could do is what basicly everyone else does and use the swastika flag but remove the symbol with a simple cross.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

You can quiet easiely mod it and swap out the flag quiet easiely. The flag might not be accurate, but the old imperial one wouldnt be accurate for that time either.

I know that, and I wish people's first answer to a question wasn't 'you can mod it yourself'. I am aware of that.

I am simply asking why the decision was taken, when the imperial flag was still one of the two official state flags until 1935 (the year before the game starts) and is a better choice than the weird flag we have now.

 

[LordOfWar16]

I know that, and I wish people's first answer to a question wasn't 'you can mod it yourself'. I am aware of that.

I am simply asking why the decision was taken, when the imperial flag was still one of the two official state flags until 1935 (the year before the game starts) and is a better choice than the weird flag we have now.

and i wish people would use the search function before asking questions.


This question was related to the german flag and casualty statistics.

We are making a game, not a historical simulation or teaching tool about the horrors of war.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

Why have you quoted that? How does that in any way answer my question?

 

[SchwarzKatze]

and i wish people would use the search function before asking questions.


This question was related to the german flag and casualty statistics.

And that covers "making a flag out of the blue" how? There's this saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

 

[realQuiGon]

I'm against using the imperial german flag as a flag for the Third Reich. The imperial german flag stands for the german monarchy and the Imperial German Empire and not for fascism and the nazis. I'm really tired of seeing it missused everywhere.

 

[ikenslay117]

I guess I don't understand why they can't use the regular war ensign. I understand that it contains the swastika and some people will be absolutely against anything with a swastika in it, but this is a historical game. If you don't like a historical symbol, don't play a historical game. In my humble opinion, "political correctness" (as long as law permits) should not override historicity when it comes to things like this. If German censorship laws require a different flag, then by all means, let the Germans have a different historical flag just like they have the darkened portraits. If this will not be done (which I realize it won't), then I agree that the edited flag should be scrapped and a different historical flag should be substituted for everyone.

We have something similar going on here in the US with Confederate symbols and monuments from our civil war. As a Civil War historian, this kind of thing really rubs me the wrong way.

 

[JerkyJerry]

The German flag I found to be the best was the white one. I think there were a couple of different ones? Maybe for the Navy? I liked those in HOI3

 

[Sleight of Hand]

Just to be clear, this thread is not about asking for the Swastika flag to be used. Paradox won't do that, and I understand why.

It is simply about whether we can go back to the old imperial flag, which - although not perfect - is still a better choice than the weird, made-up flag Germany has now.

 

[SchwarzKatze]

I guess I don't understand why they can't use the regular war ensign. I understand that it contains the swastika and some people will be absolutely against anything with a swastika in it, but this is a historical game. If you don't like a historical symbol, don't play a historical game. In my humble opinion, "political correctness" (as long as law permits) should not override historicity when it comes to things like this. If German censorship laws require a different flag, then by all means, let the Germans have a different historical flag just like they have the darkened portraits.

We have something similar going on here in the US with Confederate symbols and monuments from our civil war. As a Civil War historian, this kind of thing really rubs me the wrong way.

It's illegal in Germany, and Paradox wants to sell this product in Germany.

 

[Gr1pen]

My personal opinion is that they should just use the symbols/flags that were used at the time. If Germany doesn't want it just disable it for the German version. Done.

 

[hewhoispale]

I guess I don't understand why they can't use the regular war ensign. I understand that it contains the swastika and some people will be absolutely against anything with a swastika in it, but this is a historical game. If you don't like a historical symbol, don't play a historical game. In my humble opinion, "political correctness" (as long as law permits) should not override historicity when it comes to things like this. If German censorship laws require a different flag, then by all means, let the Germans have a different historical flag just like they have the darkened portraits.

We have something similar going on here in the US with Confederate symbols and monuments from our civil war. As a Civil War historian, this kind of thing really rubs me the wrong way.

It's illegal in Germany, and Paradox wants to sell this product in Germany.

My personal opinion is that they should just use the symbols/flags that were used at the time. If Germany doesn't want it just disable it for the German version. Done.

And they can't reasonably limit the modified flag to the not-German version unless they want to have to exclude a German POV from all promotional screenshots since the player nation's flag sits in the top of the interface.

 

[rjohansen]

I agree. Can't for the best of me, understand why they use fantasy flags for the different ideologies either. It just looks incredible stupid when I saw the communist Norwegian flag, almost laughable if it hasn't been so sad.

HOWEVER, this will perhaps be the easiest thing to mod? I am not sure, but hopefully it will be easy. But so annoying having to spend time on such matters.

 

[ikenslay117]

I agree. Can't for the best of me, understand why they use fantasy flags for the different ideologies either. It just looks incredible stupid when I saw the communist Norwegian flag, almost laughable if it hasn't been so sad.

I have no issue with the fantasy flags. As a concept, I think it's a cool idea. My only concern is with the historical flags being historical.

 

[Magnificent Genius]

I hate seeing the Imperial German flag used for Nazi Germany. I would rather they use the fantasy flag.

 

[rjohansen]

I have no issue with the fantasy flags. As a concept, I think it's a cool idea. My only concern is with the historical flags being historical.

Well. There WAS historical flags for communists and fascists in most cases... yet they use fantasy ones. Also, why should the flag automatically change between democratic/fascist?

 

[ikenslay117]

And they can't reasonably limit the modified flag to the not-German version unless they want to have to exclude a German POV from all promotional screenshots since the player nation's flag sits in the top of the interface.

This actually raises an interesting question. Has there been any real confirmation that the rest of the world isn't getting the historical war ensign? Have images of the modified flag from WWW and the Dev Diaries just been images from the German version only?

Well. There WAS historical flags for communists and fascists in most cases... yet they use fantasy ones. Also, why should the flag automatically change between democratic/fascist?

Ah, I see your point there. As to the automatic change between ideological flags, I think it would be useful to see which countries are going down an ahistorical path.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

@ikenslay117

That German flag will surely be for all versions -- Paradox won't use the Swastika, and the imperial flag can be used in games (as it was before) so it wouldn't make sense to use both of those flags.

 

[Te. Kenzo]

@podcat @Darkrenown

I'll paste this from another post I wrote in another thread:

To me, the biggest offender is the Fascist Germany flag, and not because it doesn't have a Swastika on. I completely understand why Paradox do not want Swastikas in their games, and I absolutely respect that decision. My problem with the Fascist Germany flag is that it is an awful, non-existent bastardized design of a flag. I understand that it is vaguely based on the Wehrmacht war ensign, but it just looks awkward as it is neither accurate nor especially stylish. In previous Hearts of Iron games Paradox chose to represent Germany with the old imperial flag, which was (along with the Swastika) the official flag of the Third Reich until 1935. This was a clear, logical and sensible choice, and one which I wish they had continued with.

IMO, Germany should use the old imperial flag for fascism, and the modern Bundesflagge for neutral/democratic.

Can I ask what the reason for this change was, and whether it will be reverted? I realize that you would like to have different flags for different ideologies - hence the Rising Sun flag for Fascist Japan - but there is no reason to invent fictional flags when perfectly good historical ones are already available, and the imperial flag continues to be used by far-right movements in Germany today (because it is not illegal).

Was there a particular reason you stopped using the old imperial flag? If wishing to avoid the Swastika, it is certainly the best choice for the German Reich.

I just wondered if you could maybe consider this, or at least give an answer either way. Thanks.

I don't agree, the old imperial german flag is out of place, and don't give to the player the feel that we are dealing with a different kind of german empire. I support totally the choiche of paradox, that can be also more understood by players not dealing every day with "this flag never existed, and the other one instead yes", the flag that paradox is using actually is a clear recall to the third reich feel, even if doesn't exist in history books, the old imperial one is not.