Papal States Query

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I tried scouring the FAQ and didn't find this anywhere, but are the Papal States (as a player country, GC, vanilla 1.08) incapable of vassalizing and/or diplo annexing other nations, either in general or in particular?

I ask because I have had some rather odd experiences recently:

In one instance by 1432, I had vassalized Naples and, through some fortuitous events, had my diplo rating max'ed while theirs were the lowest possible, I had a respectable reputation (don't recall exact BB#), had had relations at 200 for all 12 years that Naples had been vassalized and after 4 or 5 attempts at diplo annex (I offer, the refuse, I send personal gift to get relations back up, I offer, they refuse etc.), Naples finally cancelled the vassilation! Grrrr...

The other instance was iin the 1450s where I was leader of an alliance between myself, Tuscany, Modena and Genoa - I had relations w Genoa at 200, we both were at peace, I had an honorable rep (I think they were slightly tarnished or respectable), my diplo rating was 4 bright green dots and theirs was 2 dull red dots...*they* offered to take *me* as a vassal...when i refused and sent a gift to punch relations back up, the option to vassalize them *never* appeared on the menu! Again, grrrrr!!!

So what gives?

 

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For diplovassalization, the game only allows the stronger nation to attempt to vassalize the weaker, and the strength is measured economically. Genoa with their COT probably is much stronger in that sense than your Papal States.

For diploannexation, you as the Papal States certainly can do this. I suspect the problem in your Naples example is that you tried too soon. I recommend waiting about 30 years before you try. And you don't need to keep the relations up at the very high level constantly; just bribe them right before you make "the offer they can't refuse" and it will be much easier on your budget.

 

[unmerged(20077)]

I tried scouring the FAQ and didn't find this anywhere, but are the Papal States (as a player country, GC, vanilla 1.08) incapable of vassalizing and/or diplo annexing other nations, either in general or in particular?

I ask because I have had some rather odd experiences recently:

In one instance by 1432, I had vassalized Naples and, through some fortuitous events, had my diplo rating max'ed while theirs were the lowest possible, I had a respectable reputation (don't recall exact BB#), had had relations at 200 for all 12 years that Naples had been vassalized and after 4 or 5 attempts at diplo annex (I offer, the refuse, I send personal gift to get relations back up, I offer, they refuse etc.), Naples finally cancelled the vassilation! Grrrr...

Would this perhaps be because they had become vassals of Aragon by an event?

 

[unmerged(11496)]

For diplovassalization, the game only allows the stronger nation to attempt to vassalize the weaker, and the strength is measured economically. Genoa with their COT probably is much stronger in that sense than your Papal States.

Aha! Thanks!

 

[unmerged(11496)]

Would this perhaps be because they had become vassals of Aragon by an event?

No, that happened a while later...but that was OK, since Aragon DoW'd me while they were in wars against France, England, Castile, Algeria and Fez among others...so I grabbed all of what used to be Naples and Sicily to boot! (no pun intended)

 

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Thanks all, I have no need for further posts, my questions have been answered.