Papal States-Austria war: Is this salvageable?

[WarKitty]

So here's the situation. I'm playing the papal states. I have control of Italy up to Ferarra, as well as Venezia, Treviosa, and Friuli. The latter three are all occupied by Austria. My goal for the war is to gain Verona and Gorz -Austria turned both of them into CoT's and they're eating everything away from Venezia and Liguria (which I also own).

I have at this point about 10k cav and 4k artillery. I destroyed all three of Austria's big armies, which took quite some time, let me tell you! The problem is that my war exhaustion is through the roof. I'm running low on manpower, plus I'm also at war with England and Portugal - they're not doing a lot, but the 1000 man armies are just getting annoying and diverting my troops. Got a 4k rebellion going on down south as well. As far as I can tell Austria's manpower isn't down nearly as badly as mine is.

Is it possible to turn this war around? If so what do I need to do? I'm hardly above resigning and reloading if needed!

 

[cuendillar]

The high WE is probably due to you having those three provinces occupied - if you have naval strength left you could try to lay siege to Venezia. They should be safe as long as you keep blocking the strait. This would decrease your WE-gain and their warscore, which is something at least. If WE is already maxed out with no sign of decreasing within sight, just focus everything on laying siege to Austria - especially Vienna. Should another nation occupy a province in the meantime it's no big disaster, once the Habsburgs are peaced out you can deal with them. The only forces you really need to concern yourself with (except Austrias) are patriot/nationalist rebels.

Also, take care not to accrue any attrition, you probably can't afford that. Better to hire mercenaries as they won't affect your MP pool and are quite dispensable, assuming you have enough cash to do so.

 

[WarKitty]

Naval's a bit tricky because of England - they're not smart enough to leave their fleet there but they keep mine on the run quite well. I've got my ships hiding just off the bay outside Venezia though, so I could probably spare a cav to go grab Venezia back.

Should I just let England take whatever they take, then? That would free up my troops to go sweep through and pick off theirs as they raise them, which might help a bit. I've been having a time keeping them from banding together and hitting my siege forces.

 

[Ranger900]

I generally find trying to take on Austria head on is nearly suicidal for Papal States, they'll just keep spamming you with the horde of manpower they get until your WE tops out and rebels destroy you from the inside out.

I usually wait for Austria to end up at war with France or Bohemia or someone and then move in for hyper quick wars and grab just enough proviences (2-4) that I can force Austria to peace out before their armies come back to roflstomp me.

 

[WarKitty]

Oh, one quick related question - how on earth do I keep the HRE out? I'm a member state, I had CB (excommunicate + fabricate claims) on Austria, but every single time I declared they came in to protect them. I finally had to go back and declare on an ally, which is what brought England and Portugal in as well.

 

[Ranger900]

Oh, one quick related question - how on earth do I keep the HRE out? I'm a member state, I had CB (excommunicate + fabricate claims) on Austria, but every single time I declared they came in to protect them. I finally had to go back and declare on an ally, which is what brought England and Portugal in as well.

Is Austria the Emperor? or is it Bohemia? Cause if Austria is the Emperor then your not going to keep the HRE minors out.

Usually I just bail out of the HRE and pull all my proviences out to get rid of that Unlawful Territory nonsense.

 

[WarKitty]

Is Austria the Emperor? or is it Bohemia? Cause if Austria is the Emperor then your not going to keep the HRE minors out.

Usually I just bail out of the HRE and pull all my proviences out to get rid of that Unlawful Territory nonsense.

Bavaria, actually. They were my good friend too until this came up, and then Bavaria went after me to "protect Austria" every single time.

 

[Ranger900]

Bavaria, actually. They were my good friend too until this came up, and then Bavaria went after me to "protect Austria" every single time.

I find that odd, usually the HRE bugs off if you have an actual claim. Thought potentially using the Ecommunicated CB might not count as a HRE not coming in CB.

Better solution is to ally yourself with a minor that Austria is likely to go to war with and take over the war from them, keeps HRE from coming in against you and all that (just make sure you'll become warleader in a war or that the thing is going to be a very big one that will last long enough for you to independently peace out of).

Edit: Forgot that you pretty much did this by declaring war on a Minor.

 

[cuendillar]

Oh, one quick related question - how on earth do I keep the HRE out? I'm a member state, I had CB (excommunicate + fabricate claims) on Austria, but every single time I declared they came in to protect them. I finally had to go back and declare on an ally, which is what brought England and Portugal in as well.

From what you describe, they shouldn't be called in as the emperor. Still, imperial Bavaria is likely strong enough to secure an alliance with Austria - and they do have missions for maintaining good relations with each other. Most probably, that is why they join against you. Given a war between two of their ally, countries almost inevitably sides with the defender.
If this is the case, and you kept your alliance with Bavaria, declare war on an arbitrary harmless country that Bavaria will join you in first. Then they cannot support Austria as they're already at war alongside you.

 

[WarKitty]

From what you describe, they shouldn't be called in as the emperor. Still, imperial Bavaria is likely strong enough to secure an alliance with Austria - and they do have missions for maintaining good relations with each other. Most probably, that is why they join against you. Given a war between two of their ally, countries almost inevitably sides with the defender.
If this is the case, and you kept your alliance with Bavaria, declare war on an arbitrary harmless country that Bavaria will join you in first. Then they cannot support Austria as they're already at war alongside you.

They were not allied with Austria, though they do have a royal marriage with them. Hence my confusion. They're not even that strong - one province and a 4k army. Just big enough to annoy me having to chase them down, though.

 

[slavoslav]

Are you sure the "Ewiger Landfriede" isn't in effect? Because, if it is, the emperor has the right to intervene in any HRE conflict regardless of casus belli.

 

[WarKitty]

Are you sure the "Ewiger Landfriede" isn't in effect? Because, if it is, the emperor has the right to intervene in any HRE conflict regardless of casus belli.

I'll have to check - I'm not exactly sure where that information would be.

In any case, it looks like there might be no way out of this war anymore unless I want to cede half of Italy. England's landing ever-increasing numbers of people on my shores, and I can't fend off both them and keep my Austrian territory. And of course Austria won't go away unless I pay them my entire treasury and a couple of provinces. Neither will England.

 

[slavoslav]

Ewiger Landfriede is one of the reforms the Emperor can enact. It can be found in the HRE ledger.

 

[WarKitty]

Is there any way at all to get my morale back up? I'm just getting battered to pieces on it - I have enough troops to win if I can get them to stay on the battlefield. But I keep getting hit with one army after another until my troops run, even though they're twice the size of my attackers.

Edit: Ok, got that. Now how on earth do I get them to accept peace or give me anything? I've killed their armies, I've taken their provinces, and they still want tribute from me to sign a peace treaty.

 

[chgrogers]

Are England and Portugal demanding anything? Can you pay them off to get rid of them? Losing a little cash now or conceding defeat to get them out of the war isn't a bad deal. Just try sending 25 ducats their way. They might bite.

 

[WarKitty]

Are England and Portugal demanding anything? Can you pay them off to get rid of them? Losing a little cash now or conceding defeat to get them out of the war isn't a bad deal. Just try sending 25 ducats their way. They might bite.

I got England off my back and Portugal isn't doing anything right now so I'm ignoring them (plus they're alliance leader). Trouble is that Austria just won't give up and I'm facing rebellions back home. It looks like I could end the war at status quo but I really don't want to do that.

 

[WarKitty]

Ok now I'm even more confused. I restarted...and immediately lost to an army half my size. We're fairly even in tech, I had full morale and a good general. What gives?

 

[Viperswhip]

Random numbers. You can watch the roles if you want. I know I went one battle where I didn't roll higher than a 3.