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ljigsrb

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im not not sure why tank div have such a low toughness and defensiveness. for example as germany ive got inf lvl 5 with defensiveness 27 and toughness 22compare to panzer medium tank 47mm Panzer div with defensiveness 16 and toughness 24. According to stats tank is kind of combat uneffective and useless.
 

Eugenioso

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lol dude i was just about to begin a similar thread.

its true though. even late game (around ´45ish and onwards, or even 43) the tank has been seriously nerfed and is no longer an unstoppable killing machine as it was on Aod or ARMA. i have gone as far as to completely forfeit any tank production as germany and focus on infantry equipped with armored cars. why? because the armored cars give them more org, as well as more speed and even a tiny bit more supression.
 

ljigsrb

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in AOD i was able to hold minimum 6 russian inf div with 3 Tank div, in Iron Cross thats impossible in the front of the Moscow Russians beat me with 5 inf div and thats just not right.. If we have to focus on inf warfare instead tanks that wont be historically accurate. for breakthrough and to exploit land Cavalry is much more suited then tanks which is absurd
 

piratefish

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Yep. Same observation. The tanks went from being a little too powerful to basically being worthless when one considers everything it takes to get medium tanks onto the battlefield.
 

piratefish

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Tanks arent supposed to be static defensive weapons, but breakthrough and mobile defence weapons.

Problem is, dude, that tanks are not even really effective at that. I have had similar experiences as ljigsrb when attempting to "break through" a relatively flimsy defense.

I typically have three medium Panzers with 1 inf brigade, 1 hvy armor brigade, and 1 engineer brigade attached, and usually at least 1 motorized infantry division with either anti tank, aa, or armored car attached. Yet I have had multiple ocassions where such a configuration at full strength and in full supply cannot "break through" a half dozen or so infantry brigades in the USSR.

What I have found the armor to be extremely well suited for is racing around the map and capturing key provinces and painting the USSR gray once my INFANTRY punch gaping holes in the Soviet lines and scatter their troops to the four winds in disarray.

With blitzkreig, it was the opposite. It was the tanks that punched through after a few days of bombing and artillery shelling, with the infantry coming along behind to mop up and hold territory.

Let me tell you, nothing sucks more than to have your armor, on which you have spent so much time and resources, stop cold in its tracks well before reaching the Urals because their ESE is as near to zero as a number can get and they have run out of fuel and supplies (even though I have multiple HQs in the immediate vicinity with all of the logistics research maxed out).

Then, the armor truly is worthless (which, I suppose, is fairly close to what actually happened to the Germans - but for very different reasons).
 

azedalis

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Yeah....I was crushed by German Infantry in the Brest area...I was full...had Medium 75mm tanks x2 with advaanvace mobile artillery, with 2 second generation mobile infantry with ACs in each I had 2 of these in each hex near brest and a stack of about 10 infantry walks up and decimates me...I don't see how...I should be getting a combined arms bonus ...or is that gone too? I know norhtern france is suppose to bbe hedge road area...but armor should not be beaten up by infantry so easily when in full supply and all...It took no time for infantry to take down these armor units....We need a EMU type person who is good with the number crunching game to figure out if the stats are right.
 

piratefish

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azedalis...you are 100% correct IMO.

The French had probably the best armor in early 1940 and should have been able to defeat (or at least hold) 10 German infantry divisions.

I am not an expert on the action in France during the spring of 1940, but I'm willing to go out on a limb here and say that it is very unlikely that the Germans ever sent infantry only up against French division strength armor. That would have been as close to suicide (for the Germans) as one can imagine at that particular juncture in the war. At best, you're asking for a stalemate with high casualties for the Germans, especially if the French armor is supported by infantry divisions as well.
 
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ljigsrb

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first of all. In 1940 france had no real tank div. they had more tanks than german but they were given to inf as support vehicles. as u all know i hope rommel was in france leade rof Ghost Panzer div due to being able to punch and pull a side whatever allies can thow and go forward. Few times allies tried to stop advance punching holes in supple lines but they were protected by tanks in the begining after that inf catch up while tanks move forward. in iron cros u can protect ur line just with tank div