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out

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Apr 6, 2004
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PI games are known for their depth and complexity, and the player only gets the most out of the games when she can effectively absorb and respond to the large amount of information in the game. Unfortunately, the user interface has long been a weak point in PI design that this often become a daunting task. I'd like to start a thread for suggestions on interface improvements that's applicable to all present and future PI games.

(I'm starting the thread here even though any specific game. Mods please move the thread to another forum if appropriate.)

Many of the features I'd propose are more or less standard in any modern games but are still missing in PI despite numerous requests. Starting from the most basic...
  • Ctrl-# hotkey groupings:
    • All hotkey groups should be saved in the savefile.
    • Allow more of these groups, such as Ctrl-F# or using Alt/Shift combinations.
    • Allow Ctrl-# to bind not only to units, but also locations (or even characters if applicable).
  • Buttons and hotkeys:
    • There should be hotkeys for as many buttons/actions as possible.
    • Most if not all hotkeys should be configurable.
    • All hotkeys should be displayed either on a button's label or a button's tooltip, and reflecting the customized key binding if applicable.
    • All of the above should be possible without the need of editing/modding any game file.
  • System functions and configuration:
    • Quicksave and quickload functions.
    • Load games without needing to quit (surrender) out of an ongoing game.
    • More game/video/sound/system options should be accessible from the ingame menus, without needing to manually edit the setting files.
  • Map and map views
    • Consolidate and map view modes. For example, in HOI, weather and terrain view, and economy and victory point view should be combined, as these are factors that affect the same kind of decisions. A way of achieving this is to iconize one set of information and overlay it on top of another, e.g. terrain view with weather icons, economy view with VP icons.
    • Streamline the interface. Some map views, such as revolt risk, could be considered less important, and thus given a smaller button, or lack of a default hotkey, or accessed from a drop-down menu instead of a button for example.
    • The terrain view seems to require the most developement resource, but it is under-utilized because it does not provide enough information, whereas the political/realm view is what players spend most of the time in. Improve this by encorporating political view information with terrain view. For example, use thicker, colour-coded country borders.
    • Map views that show relations, such as diplo view or trade view, can be more informative if the relationship is shown not only by colour-coding but also directional lines.
    • As a general guideline, each map view should providing maximum pertinent information but not to the point of visual clutter.
  • Panels and screens (as in "diplomatic screen", "government panel")
    • EU3 generation games tend to use numerous smaller panels that float on top of the map. These panels nevertheless are usually large enough that much of the map is obscured an inaccessible. It'd be better to consolidate the many small panels to larger, comprehensive screen. For example, in Rome, senate/court, nation, and royal family panels (all related to state and office appointments) can combined into one, as do laws, mission/decision, religion, national idea (all related to governmental acts).
    • Alternatively, the small panels should be made even smaller by trimming unecessary decorations. The panels should be able to move, fix, float or dock anywhere on the screen and do not impede other activities.
  • Log window
    • Either separate the message and timestamp into different columns, or better indent multi-line messages: make multi-line messages more easily distinguishable.
    • Using icons, flags and colour-coding, make messages more readable at a glance. For example, each message can be headed with a "message type" icon that distinguish between internal, diplomatic, military messages, etc. Country names could be preceded by the (significuntly shrunk) country flag or colourcoded to the country's colour.
    • And to suit everybody's taste, the degree of iconization/flag/text/colour-coding in log window should be customizable.
  • Pop-ups and notification
    • The log/map/popup/popup&pause notification option should be changed so that you may have pause without popup, popup without log and so on.
    • The "incoming diplo message" icon (those that float on the bottom-left when the AI makes you a diplo offer) should be much better exploited. Most simply, it could be another level of notification that replaces popups. It's useful for non-urgent events that nevertheless require timely response. Something like this is how most strategy games deal with notifications nowadays (Total War, GalCiv, etc.) and it's very effective and elegant.
    • The notification setting screen should be better organized. A tree-structure would work very well here.
    • There should be option to further distinguish amongst subject of notifications. For example, for the same event of DoW, there could be different notification settings for 3rd country to 3rd country, between neighbour and 3rd country, between 3rd country and ally, between 3rd country and enemy, between player and 3rd country, between any country and a bookmarked country (see below).
    • In addition, some country/army/character can be "bookmarked" to give notification that would otherwise be ignored. For example, a bookmarked army may be set to notify on arriving at destination; a bookmarked character may notify on marriage.
    • Map messages, the messages that float on the map, should be less verbose but last longer onscreen. They should also be iconized to provide better visual cue.
    • Alternatively, some map messages can be shown by visual effects. For example, a province may sparkle briefly upon completion of a construction.
    • There should also be an additional level of notification: visual signal on the minimap.
    • Bug fix? Some events (as in scripted/historical events) in EU3 and EUR are not logged/paused/notified until you choose an action. It should be changed so that the log/pause/notification is immediate.
  • Units and movement
    • The "show movement" button in HOI2 is GREAT! It should be implemented in all games.
    • Unit strength and moral should be better shown onscreen without the need to click or hover over the unit. A very small morale/strength bar can go a long way.
    • Similarly, multiple units in the same province should be displayed separately (as in old Medieval&Shogun: Total War, Crown of Glory, etc.) This would be a great improvement not only in visually representing the units in a province, but also very handy in commanding and reorganizing multiple units.
    • Expanding on the above: to make the many displayed unit and their movement lines not completely cover up the whole screen, the movement lines should be much thinner...
    • ...and better yet, when multiple units share the same orders, their lines can be merged...
    • ...and even better yet, the thickness of the movement lines can vary depending on the number of units and/or the units' combined strength. This would allow for actual visual representation of force convergeance onscreen! Sweet!
    • Again improving on multi-units-per-province display, the units can become stacked/unstacked depending on the zoom level, somewhat similar to Sins of a Solar Empire.
    • And if necessary, units can be iconized when zoomed out very far, as in GalCiv, Sins of a Solar Empire. (But don't think it's that necessary considering PI's relatively low-end graphics. Of course this should be configurable.)
    • With one or more unit selected, when you move your mouse over any destination, there should be a tooltip (either fixed or following the cursor) that display the ETA to reach that destination. This would greatly facilitate strategic decision making. It's too much of a guessing game now (except for HOI).
    • Now that we have a 3D engine to work with, don't be so stingy on the animation! A moving army and a routing army should have different anims, and there should also be different anims for troops reorganizing, suffering serious attrition, entrenching, out of supply, winning/losing a battle, as well as brief anims upon arrival at destination, win/lose a battle, load/unload from ship, so on and so forth. No, this is not just for eye candy (I could care less for that), but they all provide better visual cue that allow you to understand the situation at a glance without constant clicking and reading.
    • Alternatively, very small but clear icons would do.
    • A better way to order sea/air transport. In all PI games now, you are required to manually put the transport to sea, manually load the troops, manually move to the destination and manually unload the troops. There should be some way of attaching sea/air transports to land units, so that the transport automatically move to the closest port/airfield, and automatically load/transport/unload troops when the army is ordered to cross an ocean.
    • Expanding on the above: ideally, when the transport is not enough to transport all attached troops, it would automatically make multiple trips. The whole operation can be treated as one uninterruptable (sub-)mission to ease the design.
    • Further expanding this, when there are possible land, sea and air paths to the destination, the game should automatically calculate and choose the most efficient route, taking in to account the need of multiple trips.
    • ...and/or, the player can Ctrl or Alt click the destination to force land/sea route. Either that or use HOI-style drop down menu.
  • Ledger
    • Most if not all of the information in the ledger should also be accessible elsewhere, such as family prestige in Rome. Ledger should be a tool for overviewing and analyzing massive data, but never necessary to access any specific information.
    • On the other hand, the ledger should also be more functional. For example, in Rome:VV you can build province structures directly from the ledger; that's a good start. You should also be able to disband troops, assign supply priority, cancel traderoutes and so on. Of course the ledger should also let you zoom to any specific country/character/province/army instantly from any page.
  • Misc, others, etc. and the rest
    • Port icons tend to be rather small in all PI games. Make them bigger and easier to click on.
    • Quick list (as in EUR): there should be some way to manually or semi-automatically sort the list.
    • ...Better yet, the quick list should be made into tree-structure, allowing manual grouping of items.
    • The minimap should be a bit more useful by providing basic info like country-colourcoding.
So that's what I can think of for now. To sum it up, it's all about usability, meaning: more visual representation, better info organization, less clutter, less clicking. Some of the suggestions may be difficult, but most, I believe, require minimal effort and resource -- if only they'd put some thoughts in it. It would be effort well-spent, too, for expanding PI's customer base. I know that I myself had been too intimidated by EU's interface that I put off getting into PI games for a few years.

So chip in your interface improvement ideas and let's hope they're listening!
 
Last edited:

UniversalWolf

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Consolidate...map view modes.

The map modes are the biggest pan-Paradox bugbear. Show me terrain, weather, political boundaries, cultural boundaries, and other province specific information on one map. Use overlays rather than modes.
 

Teurlinx

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Maybe add an option to determine what is saved in the save games as they can get quite big. Also an options to delete them in-game or to put them in browsable folders so you can keep save games together per campaign would be appreciated.

Most of the points raised are good ones, most of them are also quite minor though.
Some of them can be modded already like showing terrain features in the political map. (kudos to the modder who found this out, Strannik?)
Also retreating units are already easy to differentiate from normal moving units by their 'shredded flags'. I get your point about more animations, there's a lot of room for graphic improvement, but I'd rather have a gameplay improvement than a graphic one.

I think the section in most need of some work is the log window. It's the thing you watch most when you wait for time to go by. It should be able to make it sortable, or give some messages a higher priority or if you click on "French-Castillian War has been declared!" you can get more info on it instead of 10 seperate log entries with the DoW and all nations that joined etc.
 

out

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Apr 6, 2004
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Maybe add an option to determine what is saved in the save games as they can get quite big. Also an options to delete them in-game or to put them in browsable...
Good ideas!
Most of the points ... are also quite minor though.
That's the whole point. Just like your suggestion on the savegame browser, (most of) these are things that should be very simple to implement if PI chooses to. I'm not asking for any ground-breaking rethinking here.
Some of them can be modded already like showing terrain features in the political map.
Didn't know that. I mod my interface in EUR, too. But then we shouldn't need to mod anything for a decent interface... is PI relying too much on the mod community?
Also retreating units are already easy to differentiate from normal moving units by their 'shredded flags'. I get your point about more animations...
Yeah, I've forgotten about the shredded flags because it's only featured in EU3 and nothing else. As for the animations, I'm definitely not asking simply for better graphics, but functional visuals that would improve gameplay.

Thanks for the responses and keep your ideas coming... We all tolerate the PI interface, but I'm sure nobody loves it. How nice would it be if the interface didn't have to be something we have to struggle with all the time.
 
Last edited:

Pellaken

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I'd like so that when I click on a, for example, merchant in the top bar, that it'd take me to the economic mapmode, or a diplomat to the diplomatic mapmode, etc.
 

WankoStankins

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SOMEONE HERE PLAYS DWARF FORTRESS?! I honestly thought nobody ever played that game lol it's AWESOME except the graphics. I used to play but the graphics are too dang bad even with the mods.:(
 

Teurlinx

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Good ideas!

Thanks, I thought I might as well add a few suggestions instead of just 'bumping' your great list

That's the whole point. ... (most of) these are things that should be very simple to implement if PI chooses to. I'm not asking for any ground-breaking rethinking here.

Fair enough, and I did understand what you said ;). It's just that I'd hate to see Paradox become a company that focusses on graphics over gameplay like most of the others. I know, I know, but I can't help but think that it's better to err on the safe side - or in this case a great ways on the safe side.

Didn't know that. I mod my interface in EUR, too. But then we shouldn't need to mod anything for a decent interface... is PI relying too much on the mod community?

Maybe so, it took a long while before a dedicated modder found out how to mod the terrain graphics into the political view in EU:3. It's not like modding the event files, this requires some serious knowledge.
About if Paradox relies too much on the mod community: personally I think it depends on the game. Hoi2 was playable right out of the box, as was doomsday. EU:3 on the other hand was a major disappointment without mods for me though and has only become playable without mods since IN imo.
EU:Rome definately falls in the EU:3 category, real waste of good money, I'll just wait and get the addon when it's at rock bottom price and see if there are any good mods by then to check out. (end of rant:wacko:)

Also in all fairness seeing how many features Paradox crams into each game, it's bound to be a '2 steps forward and 1 step backward' kinda thing regarding the interface.

Yeah, I've forgotten about the shredded flags because it's only featured in EU3 and nothing else.

Really? I admit not having played any of the others in a while, but can't remember being confused about retreating units before, but I'll take your word for it ;) (maybe I'm confused with the colored arrows in Hoi2?)

As for the animations, I'm definitely not asking simply for better graphics, but functional visuals that would improve gameplay.

That would indeed be great, and really makes you wonder why they aren't there yet. About the only functionality there is in them atm is marching / standing and that the soldiers face the direction they're moving in. Oh and they wobble a bit with their halberds when in a fight, or is that just my imagination again? :rofl:

Units repairing, training, multiple units in general instead of a big stack with a lot of flags, that really ought to be added soon. I had some hope for HoI3 to expand a bit in this area, but from the looks of it's mostly brushed up sprites, not really new functionality in them. (This is kinda hard to judge from just screenshots though, and Johan did mention there'd be many more sprites in HoI3 than HoI2)

Thanks for the responses and keep your ideas coming... We all tolerate the PI interface, but I'm sure nobody loves it. How nice would it be if the interface didn't have to be something we have to struggle with all the time.

You're very welcome, we can only hope for the best.

P.S. I'd judge Paradox interfaces as mediocre to satisfactory, maybe only because I've been used to way more horrible interfaces. Ever tried to allign 100 factory complex in a game like X3 where you have to go through 10 menu's for about every command every time? And then find, buy, equip enough ships to keep the complex going, escort them, find buyers and ugh... :D
 

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-A map or sometrhing similar to show the level of RR, colour-coded (like in Medieval: TW I )
-Port: when there are lots of un-sorted ships, I would like to be able to drag a square over the port to select all ships in it (already implemented) and to be able to shift+click on various ships/small stacks to command them where to go or to stack them together, not select all then de-select theo nes that I don't want.
-Generals. I would like to be able to just click on a general/Admiral from the roster and be directly transported to that unit/stack.
 

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Ever tried to allign 100 factory complex in a game like X3 where you have to go through 10 menu's for about every command every time? And then find, buy, equip enough ships to keep the complex going, escort them, find buyers and ugh... :D


Never played X3, but I am still playing X2 (also from Egosoft, of course) and I have like 500 factories and the interface is a neverending pain, worse than sandpapering my eyeballs :D
 

Teurlinx

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-A map or sometrhing similar to show the level of RR, colour-coded (like in Medieval: TW I )

There is a dissent map in HoI2 (and in Victoria too I thought)
I guess it's been replaced by the dissent icon on the top of the screen, which is handy if you're a small nation, (it also shows what kind of rebel is most likely, how would you show this on a color map easily?) but not so handy if you're a big nation - it still lists the ones with biggest RR% on top though.
Another reason might be that in Hoi2 you could actually set units to anti-partisan duty which made the dissent map a real blessing.

Never played X3, but I am still playing X2 (also from Egosoft, of course) and I have like 500 factories and the interface is a neverending pain, worse than sandpapering my eyeballs

Wow, thought no-one would know the game :p
P.S. X3 vanilla is basically X2.4 without all the added features but better graphics. After a lot of patches and mods it finally regained all the features from X2.4 - and a few new ones.
 

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There is a dissent map in HoI2 (and in Victoria too I thought)
I guess it's been replaced by the dissent icon on the top of the screen, which is handy if you're a small nation, (it also shows what kind of rebel is most likely, how would you show this on a color map easily?) but not so handy if you're a big nation - it still lists the ones with biggest RR% on top though.

In Medieval:Total War, there was a key which, when depressed, colored the provinces depending on the revolt risk: green: no risk, red: high risk, and in between other colors, like yellow, orange, light green etc. Maybe in steps of 4%RR for each colour?

X2: you kidding? I am playing this damn very same game for years now. This is my third machine with X2 installed on it :)
My goal is to finally start capturing those Xenon 'K's, repair and refit them and use them as watchdogs in my most important sectors :) I am Ace of aces 2nd, need about 30% to become AoE 1st, and then I will be able to finally capture those 'K's :p
Have already a dozen hmm....'Gamma Plasma Pulse Cannon' *GPPC* Factory loops running! :p

Sorry for the offtopic, guys :p
 

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In Medieval:Total War, there was a key which, when depressed, colored the provinces depending on the revolt risk: green: no risk, red: high risk, and in between other colors, like yellow, orange, light green etc. Maybe in steps of 4%RR for each colour?

X2: you kidding? I am playing this damn very same game for years now. This is my third machine with X2 installed on it :)
My goal is to finally start capturing those Xenon 'K's, repair and refit them and use them as watchdogs in my most important sectors :) I am Ace of aces 2nd, need about 30% to become AoE 1st, and then I will be able to finally capture those 'K's :p
Have already a dozen hmm....'Gamma Plasma Pulse Cannon' *GPPC* Factory loops running! :p

Sorry for the offtopic, guys :p
The revolt risk map in Victoria is very useful for me to station troops; EU3 would definitely benefit from one. Victoria's is green for no revolt risk and then varying shades of red.
 

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Did someone already propose the following?:

- Make all menus and windows resizable: It is a bit awkward to scroll through endless lists of cpuntry relations from a tiny screen.

- Make the fonts resizable: they are very small. I am still having difficulty distinguishing between numbers 3 and 5. Or is that just me? I sometimes need to compare a number to another one that I am sure of is 5, to see whether it is the same or not.

- Make it possible to view on the map how much income each province is generating, in coloured grading. This should be potential income as if you possessed the province without RR.