Some will, some won't. But they shouldn't have to. Steam should be creating a consumer-friendly environment, not coming up with a new way to milk their captive userbase for money for nothing every few months.
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We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Some will, some won't. But they shouldn't have to. Steam should be creating a consumer-friendly environment, not coming up with a new way to milk their captive userbase for money for nothing every few months.
Don't ever go there Paradox! This is nothing but an abomination thought out by steam and bethesda as usual, the same bethesda that made $2 horse armour that started a whole revolution of crappy cosmetic DLCs. You used to be advocates of DRM-free gaming, right now you're probably are far from that. You don't wanna go down the rabbit hole any further.
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Well this is it. Officialy switching to GOG, will never buy any steam game or any bethesda game anymore if this continues.
This is the worst possible move they could make, and in the worst possible game for it. Anyone with a common sense knew the backlash would happen, and yet Chesko, and all the other modders, and Valve and Bethesda went for it.
Dont feel sorry for none of them. I love frostfall, but chesko had it coming.
In that letter he wrote he wants to turn out as innocent. Then in the end he complains about valve and bethesda "taking over" his mod when he wanted to take it out of the workshop.
Well he didnt even think twice of uploading it in the first place with assets from Fore's mod without any freaking permission.
SkyUI has just made a sellout. Got no doubt that valve and bethesda contacted them after the major backlash in order to at least get one of the essential mods into the workshop.
Base line is, this only incourages piracy and something new.... MOD piracy. There is a bundle in the workshop for 70 freaking dollars.
Well how much the 100 mods i have currently in skyrim would cost? Base 2-3 for each mod?
Next thing we know they will be charging for patches as well right?
You know, cause patches are optional.
You dont have to want a bug fixed. It may not bother you.
So you must pay.
I guess we cant expect anything good coming from Fallout 4. Which is quite sad really since i was expecting great things from it.
Im not buying it if it has this steam workshop feature with paid mods.
Which most likely will. I mean they probably thought of experimenting it on skyrim first, and they failed miserably. But betting on their greedy asses they will keep it low until Fallout IV is released and implement from the start this paid mods.
Also:
Also everyone please sign this.
https://www.change.org/p/valve-remove-the-paid-content-of-the-steam-workshop
Even if you dont believe petitions dont do shit. (kinda like me)
This is the worst possible move they could make, and in the worst possible game for it. Anyone with a common sense knew the backlash would happen, and yet Chesko, and all the other modders, and Valve and Bethesda went for it.
Dont feel sorry for none of them. I love frostfall, but chesko had it coming.
In that letter he wrote he wants to turn out as innocent. Then in the end he complains about valve and bethesda "taking over" his mod when he wanted to take it out of the workshop.
Well he didnt even think twice of uploading it in the first place with assets from Fore's mod without any freaking permission.
SkyUI has just made a sellout. Got no doubt that valve and bethesda contacted them after the major backlash in order to at least get one of the essential mods into the workshop.
Base line is, this only incourages piracy and something new.... MOD piracy. There is a bundle in the workshop for 70 freaking dollars.
Well how much the 100 mods i have currently in skyrim would cost? Base 2-3 for each mod?
Next thing we know they will be charging for patches as well right?
You know, cause patches are optional.
You dont have to want a bug fixed. It may not bother you.
So you must pay.
I guess we cant expect anything good coming from Fallout 4. Which is quite sad really since i was expecting great things from it.
Im not buying it if it has this steam workshop feature with paid mods.
Which most likely will. I mean they probably thought of experimenting it on skyrim first, and they failed miserably. But betting on their greedy asses they will keep it low until Fallout IV is released and implement from the start this paid mods.
Also:
Also everyone please sign this.
https://www.change.org/p/valve-remove-the-paid-content-of-the-steam-workshop
Even if you dont believe petitions dont do shit. (kinda like me)
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I apologize for if I sound self-righteous but I want to voice my opinion on this matter. I been a big fan of Paradox games for several years, I sunk countless hours into Hearts of Iron 2, EU3 and 4, Vicky II, and have well over a thousand hours in CK II. I even look the other way with your overzealous DLC (Though $194.49 for all the CKII DLC, really? I know it goes on sale a lot but that is ridiculous). Anyway but if Paradox engages in hiding mods behind a pay-wall I will no longer support your games.
I am not against modders being payed for their work, but a paywall is a horrible way to do it. How can we try the mods and see if they are any good? A paywall makes that more difficult. Mods frequently don't even work when you first try them, they can become incompatible with other mods, a new patch can make the mod not work, etc. If it doesn't work we are going to rely on possibly someone maintaining the mod on their own time, not like a professional developer. And the gracious Valve gives us a whole 24 hour period to get a refund if it doesn't work. So pray tell, what happens if the mod breaks after that whole 24 hours? Well... And if we do get a refund, Valve will refund our money in Steam fun bucks...woohoo...
And my final point which I personally feel is the one that pisses me off to no end. The dev/pub should not get any significant portion of the cut, period. Yes it's your IP, and that is your legal right, but Christ it would be nice to see something that isn't monetized to all hell. You got your "cut" when the modders and players bought your games in the first place. You shovel out outrageous DLC all the time. When is it enough? When I want to donate to a modder, I want the vast majority to go to the people who put in their free time to make the mod, not the ones who cry "m-muh Intellectual Property." I gave you my money already to play the game and the DLC. Do you not know that mods are a reason many people play your games? Show some respect to your consumers.
This is shameful Johan:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...y-thoughts-on-paid-mods.852738/#post-19220135
Paradox if you do this you won't get your "cut" from me any longer.
EDIT: I just wanted to thank all the fantastic modders that happen to read this for your collective hard work in creating some of the most awesome mods. The only reason I played hundreds of hours of CK2 and other games on top of what I already played was because of you, thank you.
EDIT #2: Looks like Johan's post was deleted.
I am not against modders being payed for their work, but a paywall is a horrible way to do it. How can we try the mods and see if they are any good? A paywall makes that more difficult. Mods frequently don't even work when you first try them, they can become incompatible with other mods, a new patch can make the mod not work, etc. If it doesn't work we are going to rely on possibly someone maintaining the mod on their own time, not like a professional developer. And the gracious Valve gives us a whole 24 hour period to get a refund if it doesn't work. So pray tell, what happens if the mod breaks after that whole 24 hours? Well... And if we do get a refund, Valve will refund our money in Steam fun bucks...woohoo...
And my final point which I personally feel is the one that pisses me off to no end. The dev/pub should not get any significant portion of the cut, period. Yes it's your IP, and that is your legal right, but Christ it would be nice to see something that isn't monetized to all hell. You got your "cut" when the modders and players bought your games in the first place. You shovel out outrageous DLC all the time. When is it enough? When I want to donate to a modder, I want the vast majority to go to the people who put in their free time to make the mod, not the ones who cry "m-muh Intellectual Property." I gave you my money already to play the game and the DLC. Do you not know that mods are a reason many people play your games? Show some respect to your consumers.
This is shameful Johan:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...y-thoughts-on-paid-mods.852738/#post-19220135
Paradox if you do this you won't get your "cut" from me any longer.
EDIT: I just wanted to thank all the fantastic modders that happen to read this for your collective hard work in creating some of the most awesome mods. The only reason I played hundreds of hours of CK2 and other games on top of what I already played was because of you, thank you.
EDIT #2: Looks like Johan's post was deleted.
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What the hell, i dont know if Johan is trolling or not giving the contents of that message.
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'I'd love some way where modders can earn money, while we still get our cut.' Johan
I am posting in defense of Johan! He does not say what Paradox's cut would be. I use Paradox's forum to support my mod. I base my mod on their game. Currently the only one financially benefiting is Paradox! My mods are a value added product that I get no financial benefit from. Are all mods worth paying for? No, I would not ask anyone to pay for some of my mods! They are free! Some large mods would be worth paying for and Paradox should get something for it! Steam for handling the transaction should get a cut. I too might think that the setup current on Steam is too little for the modder.
Those of you asking, no demanding, things stay free are just selfish. Those that think the modders should get about half of the sale price have a very good point. Those that think modders should 'be able' make something for their mods, but that Paradox shouldn't get anything just don't understand how things work.
Because there have been no statement on policy and with posting of Paradox employes it would seem they are watching how things are working and hopefully will avoid most of the problems that are current with what is happening on Steam.
I am posting in defense of Johan! He does not say what Paradox's cut would be. I use Paradox's forum to support my mod. I base my mod on their game. Currently the only one financially benefiting is Paradox! My mods are a value added product that I get no financial benefit from. Are all mods worth paying for? No, I would not ask anyone to pay for some of my mods! They are free! Some large mods would be worth paying for and Paradox should get something for it! Steam for handling the transaction should get a cut. I too might think that the setup current on Steam is too little for the modder.
Those of you asking, no demanding, things stay free are just selfish. Those that think the modders should get about half of the sale price have a very good point. Those that think modders should 'be able' make something for their mods, but that Paradox shouldn't get anything just don't understand how things work.
Because there have been no statement on policy and with posting of Paradox employes it would seem they are watching how things are working and hopefully will avoid most of the problems that are current with what is happening on Steam.
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Change.org petition now has over 60,000 signatures! Wow, Valve, have fun reading that one.
I think Bethesda needs to find better ways to make money, like, say, come out with Fallout 4 and Elder Scrolls 6 already?! Why milk Skyrim mods? That is old hat now.
I think Bethesda needs to find better ways to make money, like, say, come out with Fallout 4 and Elder Scrolls 6 already?! Why milk Skyrim mods? That is old hat now.
Exactly. IT'S ME, IT'S STEAM. It's not about the other stores or other people. It's about STEAM. They're not doing anything extra.
This has ruined my evening. Never paying for mods, no matter how large.
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When it comes down to it, the negatives outweigh the positives.
For positives there are like 1? Possibly 2.
Negatives go beyond 10.
For positives there are like 1? Possibly 2.
Negatives go beyond 10.
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I have nothing against modders making mods and asking to be paid for their work, however the system that is used for Skyrim reeks of greed.
If what I heard is correct, they are taking 75% of the profit and dividing that up between the beneficiaries that are not directly involved in the creation of the mod.
ZeniMax is one of them and Valve itself is another, obviously.
I find that to be in bad taste.
If what I heard is correct, they are taking 75% of the profit and dividing that up between the beneficiaries that are not directly involved in the creation of the mod.
ZeniMax is one of them and Valve itself is another, obviously.
I find that to be in bad taste.
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If this continues we'll never see free mods such as Europa Barbarorum, Third Age, Forgotten Hope 2, Darth mod, etc etc....
I mean, if you compare all the work the europa barbarorum guys did to the work ANY, and i literally mean ANY skyrim modder did, it doesnt even comes close. And the europa barbarorum devs did it for free, and even when asked if they'd charge money if they could, they officialy stated they would do it for free... FREE.
Charging mods does not raises quality. Because mod quality does not needs to be raised. Setting prices for mods will make more total conversions or big mods available?
No it wont. Not even for Skyrim. Falskaar is free.
What about for other games? Would i play victoria 2 if i had to pay for pop demand mod The hell i woudnt.
What is solely the only reason i still play Rome total war and Battlefield 2
Europa Barbarorum and Forgotten Hope 2, respectivelly.
Do any of them desire to set a cost?
NO.
And that is why they are called mods, and not DLCs.
Paid mods = DLCs.
Now if you lick on paradox toes for all the shit DLC that they have for example for crusader kings 2 where to buy the whole thing its 200$. You are probably happy with that.
The rest of us arent.
I mean, if you compare all the work the europa barbarorum guys did to the work ANY, and i literally mean ANY skyrim modder did, it doesnt even comes close. And the europa barbarorum devs did it for free, and even when asked if they'd charge money if they could, they officialy stated they would do it for free... FREE.
Charging mods does not raises quality. Because mod quality does not needs to be raised. Setting prices for mods will make more total conversions or big mods available?
No it wont. Not even for Skyrim. Falskaar is free.
What about for other games? Would i play victoria 2 if i had to pay for pop demand mod The hell i woudnt.
What is solely the only reason i still play Rome total war and Battlefield 2
Europa Barbarorum and Forgotten Hope 2, respectivelly.
Do any of them desire to set a cost?
NO.
And that is why they are called mods, and not DLCs.
Paid mods = DLCs.
Now if you lick on paradox toes for all the shit DLC that they have for example for crusader kings 2 where to buy the whole thing its 200$. You are probably happy with that.
The rest of us arent.
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Gee, Johan, I thought Paradox got enough "cut" when making me pay 15-20 dollars for map randomizers that don't work all that well, or several bucks a pop for "metal" music to go with Renaissance era warfare, or DLC packs that become irrelevant with later changes to the game.
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I agree that modders should be able to do anything with their mods in terms of making it premium or asking for donations, it may well affect if I pay any attention to them, but hey it's their work. But I don't understand this corporate apologist statement. You said yourself that mods financially benefit Paradox, which they certainly do. They add value to the game they are modding. But why does Paradox deserve anything for mods that people make in their free time? I assuming that you didn't pirate their games, I didn't, most people don't I hope. They received the money that they asked for. They certainly weren't complaining about not making money off of mods before. But soon as the big boys over at Valve and Bethesda sign a deal over it, Johan throws out what he really wants. I understand it wasn't an official statement but being a studio manager it could become an unfortunate reality.
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"Steam" isn't making any money. "Steam" is just a piece of software. And I don't see what your point is, I was describing how things happen in real life there's not really anything for you to argue. We can discuss the merits of Valve wanting to profit from user-created content and what kind of share they deserve, but if the scenario I described is indicative of some sort of problem to you, then your problem isn't really with this specific instance of Valve wanting to make money off of modders. Its with people wanting to make money off of anything in general and I don't know what to tell you.
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Because I would value a good relationship with Paradox and for some of the reasons are in my earlier post (Link).
I think some of the problem is definitions and people expectations. Mod = Free, DLC = Pay. What is the difference between a paid for mod and a third party DLC? If Paradox does not allow paid for mods, but greatly expand the number of third party DLCs would that be alright?
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How so? Whats the connection? Has a similar thing happened before? Whats to stop the people who made those mods from saying "I'd prefer to keep my content freely available for all"? A lot of people make this claim but no one has explained the connection so at best its some very vague and hazy slippery slope claim.
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So mods are pretty much DLC now? I seriously hope Paradox and the modders here are better than this because it would take a royal idiot to actually pay for community created mod content.
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It depends. Are they professional developers who will support their work as long as Paradox is supporting the game that is being modded? Or is it someone doing it on their own free time? What if they are unable to support the mod for whatever reason? Will Paradox actually have some kind of quality assurance over this 3rd party DLC?
I would imagine that most people who would choose to buy a mod would be upset if the mod stops working because the modder has something come up in their life, leaving them unable to support it for a long time, if ever. That's not acceptable for something that costs money. Valve's limit for a refund is 24 hours, I don't have to tell you that a mod could easily break after that time period. Would Paradox support it if a modder is unable to? To be honest they seem to have difficulty patching their own games at times.
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Well, I for one don't want to see the games I love riddled with 3rd party microtransactions. Even less if they don't have a proper QA, they are unfinished, they don't have official support from the PDS team, they can be broken with every update or break the game with every update, etc.
I also feel like this would harm the modder community. We have already seen Skyrim modders stating that they're done with modding and other drama.
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