Paganism...

[Earl Uhtred]

As things are, paganism in CK is as much of a monolith as Islam. This is clearly ridiculous, since paganism indicates nothing but an absence of Christianity or Islam and can't remotely be treated as a bloc.

I suggest if it's at all possible (and I fear it isn't) 'paganism' is divvied by culture so that, frx, Baltic pagans have no kinship with the ones in the Caucasus.

On a similar note, I feel pagan nations should suffer a significant tech penalty and perhaps lose a percentage of income after regiment sizes are calculated.

 

[Solmyr]

I'd also suggest that AI pagans can only marry people of their own culture, so we don't get all those Finnish-Cuman families.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Like pagans weren't already puny enough...?

 

[Earl Uhtred]

I'd also suggest that AI pagans can only marry people of their own culture, so we don't get all those Finnish-Cuman families.

That's even better - could easily be doable, though it could cripple dynasties from minor cultures.

 

[Finarfin]

That's even better - could easily be doable, though it could cripple dynasties from minor cultures.

That's why they are minor cultures, though. I hate the fact that you can assault one isolated pagan province and you're now fighting every pagan group in the world. Their circular alliances are really too much, I think.

 

[unmerged(5707)]

Definitely good ideas..... and the pagans are NO longer puny, those suckers may fall quick, but they dont stay fallen... my horses are exhausted from running off constantly to remind them who's boss here!

I think the tech penalty and cross marriage bans are great ideas. I also think the inter-tribe hostility should be tweaked upward, so they're more like to fight each other, at least at first. As time goes by, and Catholic Europe consolidates around them, it might make sense for the penalties to lessen, as they'd start to band together in self defense. In which case, marriage to a bordering tribe might be acceptable to help coalesce their nascent statehood. Also, as they spend more time fighting their Catholic neighbors, they would start to pick up bits and pieces of their technology.

 

[unmerged(7415)]

Indeed. It is 1226, and the Pagans have swept Russia. There are no more Orthodox provinces in Eastern Europe. They have all painted themselves blue and are barking at the moon. (no offense to devotees of moon-barking).

Pagans would have also swept Scandinavia, had I not drawn the line and set up a vassal in Norway. France is all but destroyed. Each time the Pagans take a French province, the K. of Italy seizes that province. The Pagans seem to be serving as a yeast for the consolidation of Europe. When the Golden Horde hits this malt (any time now), it is going to get strange.

A few things seem to be contributing to this:

-It is easy to convert the religion of a province.
-The Pagan nobility is many layers deep; not just King-Duke-Count.
-The many Pagan capitals all produce Pagan characters.
-Christian Kingdoms ignore the destruction of neighboring Christian kingdoms.
-Byzantium is split into 3 Crowns: Byzantium/Bulgaria/Croatia.
-Hungary disintigrated early on, leaving Pagans in the Balkans.
-Poland is gone too. Only Italy, Germany, and a fragmented England remain.

This is going to be a wild EU2 game, not to mention once it gets to Victoria.

 

[Earl Uhtred]

-The Pagan nobility is many layers deep; not just King-Duke-Count.

WHOA! That needs to change - urgently.

 

[Captain Frakas]

Why not have an trigger like "type = neighbor_province_religion value = { [religion type] = [yes/no] ... }"

Then we could make some "monotheism propagation into pagan lands" events (catholics, orthodox, and muslim) and then make some "leader convert to the new religion" events.

 

[unmerged(20077)]

Elsewhere someone suggested that Orthodox be allowed to marry pagans as this happened historically. This was a particular strategy of the Byzantines and it played its part in spreading Christianity. There should perhaps be a rule that pagans can't get conversion events (unless the province started the game pagan)
However - note how powerful pagan Lithuania became. Don't nerf pagans too much.

 

[RaistlinX]

Convert?

Can you convert a pagan province you take over and control?

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Can you convert a pagan province you take over and control?

This is done by an event. This will kick of sometime after you have conquered the province. Building a church and Templar house will speed it up

 

[Earl Uhtred]

Making the province a bishopric helps too, they say.

 

[unmerged(7415)]

I would suspect that a Monestary should have some effect in converting a province. In the Oct31 patch, religious conversion is wildly easy. We have lots of Bohemian Muslims, Arab Catholics, and Russian Pagans running around at the moment. The game has more 'strangeness' than I have yet seen in a patch. See above for circumstances.

 

[unmerged(35838)]

As things are, paganism in CK is as much of a monolith as Islam. This is clearly ridiculous, since paganism indicates nothing but an absence of Christianity or Islam and can't remotely be treated as a bloc.

But Thor did get made in a comic strip hero, who else can claim that?

 

[Earl Uhtred]

But Thor did get made in a comic strip hero, who else can claim that?

Certainly not Allah

 

[Taear]

Certainly not Allah

Well, since you're not allowed to actually depict Allah, a comic where the main character was always "off-screen" would get boring pretty fast.

Anyway, on-topic, I've not noticed this at all - although the pagans pretty much always crush Polotsk, they've never managed to pour across Europe. The Rus kingdoms usually end up being slaughtered by the Islamic Russian tribes, rather than by the Pagans.

However, I always see the Fins breed into Cuman families, and it doesn't take long before all of Finland and Livonia are Cuman. I'd say making it so cross-culture pagan marriages aren't permitted would help this immesurably. Also, maybe it would be a good idea to add a few "Conversion to Christianity" events to the actual pagans themselves. Although it didn't happen often, it DID happen, but under CK, it's impossible. Perhaps Pagans could get the Heretic trait, and this has a 20% chance of firing off a "Swear To The Cross" event, Catholisising/Orthadoxing the Pagan ruler?

 

[Earl Uhtred]

I think Lithuania's example alone makes the possibility worth including.

 

[unmerged(35838)]

well a sudden conversion to christianity can happen, like a guy walking through china town 10 years ago and hearing evangelists. oh bugger. there I go mixing up reality with the game, and as johan says this is not a simulation