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ryprize

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Long time fan of Old Gods and all that the DLC entailed. Can’t wait for Holy Fury.

Is there anyway a succession by combat or by election from the characters sons without gavelkind destroying your desmesne? This makes it a more random of an event, but would help playing some of the pagan regions. This was actually more common of a practice in the Lithuanian and Finland area than plain old gavelkind.

Thanks, keep up the great work!
 
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ryprize

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I guess you are referring to "New Succession Laws: A Pagan Elder Council may have the final word in how a realm is divided among heirs, or a ruler may challenge his brother to combat to unify a realm.".

This seems like a great addition for those of us who hate fracturing the realm every time the ruler dies, but were there any suggestions to changes that I missed in your post?


I saw the addition after the post, but I was thinking more along the lines of if you have a ruler with 6 non-bastard or legitimized bastard sons, and prior to your death you can have them fight in personal combat to decide who will be the heir (primogeniture style). Or have call a council of elders to decide a true heir, instead of just deciding what son or daughter gets what duchies or kingdoms.
 

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I saw the addition after the post, but I was thinking more along the lines of if you have a ruler with 6 non-bastard or legitimized bastard sons, and prior to your death you can have them fight in personal combat to decide who will be the heir (primogeniture style). Or have call a council of elders to decide a true heir, instead of just deciding what son or daughter gets what duchies or kingdoms.
This is good maybe make it 8 for the death duel any less and you have a council of elders 3 or less and you just get normal gavlekind
 

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I agree, just the battles don’t necessarily need to be to the death:)
Yeah not death and only kids over 15 count for the duel and under 15 will get a right to challenge for the throne useable for 10 years after coming of age
 

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Maybe:

Kratocracy [Duels]:
- Anyone who's a title claimant or pretender to the throne can join the succession war after the ruler's death.
- There will be a modifier to increase the chance of people joining in. I.e ambitious, proud, zealous and envious increases the RNG, while humble, kind, craven, slothful and content decreases the RNG.
- Members of the rulers dynasty will get a a bonus RNG modifier of joining on the succession war if a member of another dynasty has decided to enter the succession war as well.
- You can ask other claimants to back out of the succession war.. If they back out depends on how much they like you, their personality traits [ambitious, proud, envious, Zealous (not negotiating with infidels or cynical people), Cynical (not negotiating with zealous people)...]. They may demand something back, like gold or a favor. You won't be very popular doing this though, giving you the Craven trait and -50 prestige per person asked. If you have a favor, you can use it.
- You will all then participate in a duel where Personal combat skill and Martial Prowess affects the RNG variable.
- Various events like you cutting off the hand of the target or wounding your opponent in battle. He's then given an option to continue or to give up. Should he forfeit, you will get prestige. Should he continue, there's a chance of him getting severely injured. But as the personal combat decreases to their disadvantage and to your advantage [them being wounded, losing an eye...], the RNG variable of you winning increases all the time. Like a 91% chance to win, 9% chance to lose based on Martial and Personal Combat skills. Even though it looks good, there's always a chance of you losing though. Should they never forfeit, i.e if they are proud or your rival, it might either result in them fainting from being maimed or them actually dying. Of course these events can also be triggered against you. But after every phase, you have an option to decide whether to continue or to forfeit.
- For every battle participated in, your personal combat skills increases by [+1] and for every duel won another [+1]. If you have the military education trait, there's also a chance of it increasing.
- While you are doing this, the AI are also fighting each other in a duel. Meaning it's not you fighting 9 claimants, you will be dueling 2-3 at most.
- The duels continue until there's no one left who competes over the throne. Everyone maimed or severely injured will be removed from the competition.
- You can't abuse this system by thinking the AI will finish each other, leaving you the last man standing. The duels won't progress until you have done your part, and the AI without a combatant will invite you to a duel.
- The final winner gets an opinion bonus of +10 from everybody for 10 years for having shown his might.
- if the ruler is of your dynasty. you will get the option to play as him. Meaning an AI will control your previous land and character. You can still continue playing as a vassal with your direct heir and all your former fiefdom intact if you want though.
- If the ruler is of another dynasty, you will become his vassals while still holding onto your original land and character. Like above.
- Every 5 years, a claimant can request the current ruler to a duel over the throne. If they accept, THEY will get the brave trait. If you win, you will get prestige and be recognized as the ruler. If they decline, they will get the craven trait and all their vassals will get a -25 opinion towards them for 2 years [stacking per duel refused]. Increasing the odds of faction activity to seize power. If they accept and win, they will get a vassal opinion boost of +10 for 5 years {stacking per duel won], improved personal combat skills and prestige.
- During the period of idleness, a regent and council will be handling the national affairs. Should a war be declared on your realm or on the realm in which you are a vassal, the previous ruler has the authority to deal with the matter until it's settled. In other words: His direct heir is still considered the "King" and deals with matters such as raising an army in defensive wars while you are participating in duels. But he can't declare offensive wars, change laws or any other "king-like" stuff. Should the previous king have been you, it's on your responsibility to defend the realm while participating in the duels at the same time. The regent and the council can be called into defensive wars during this period.


Kratocracy [Wars]:
- Anyone who's a a title claimant or pretender to the throne can join the succession war after the ruler's death.
- There will be a modifier to increase the chance of people joining in. I.e ambitious, proud, zealous and envious increasing the RNG, while humble, kind, craven, slothful and content decreases the RNG.
- Members of the rulers dynasty will get a a bonus RNG modifier of joining on the succession war if a member of another dynasty has decided to enter the succession war as well.
- Vassals prefer to support claimants of their own dynasty if they have any.
- If religion and culture allows it, Vassals can offer you concubines. If of their own dynasty, and the concubines are considered close-relatives (sister or daughter), the vassal can forcibly press the claims of the children born of the concubine and the ruler [king] in the upcoming succession war. If successful, the children born of the concubine will be of the Vassal's dynasty. instead of the current ruler's. If underage and victorious, the Vassal will become regent.
- Vassals without a claim can decide to support a claimant of another dynasty who joined in on the succession war. There will be an RNG variable of them joining in depending on how much they like someone. They might send a request, promising you their loyalty in return for gold, a favor or some kind of fiefdom / position.
- Should a Vassal not request to join of his own accord, you can right click their portrait and ask them to join your faction. This one will be a harder negotiation though. If they like some other candidate more than you, they will absolutely refuse. And even if they accept your offer, they will demand more than in the upper scenario. I.e if the situation above was true, they would demand a sum of 100G. Now, they would demand a sum of 150G. Just as an example. Should you decline his proposal, he will get an opinion penalty towards you and an opinion boost towards all the other candidates, of which he might send a request to back some of them on his own accord.
- Claimants and Vassal alike have an option to remain neutral. Observing the civil war rather than participating directly. During this period, they cannot be attacked by the other factions. But they can still be targeted by a foreign enemy.
- During and after the war, a bond will form between leader and benefactor, giving a +15 opinion for the next 10 years. Naturally, Vassals feel obligated to join in. So they won't think better of their liege. Their liege appreciates it though, so +15 one-way. But should the benefactors choose to join in of their own accord (independent), then it will be a two-way +15 opinion for the next 10 years.
- You can ask other claimants to back out of the succession war. If they agree, their faction will end and they and their supporters are free to support someone else. If they back out depends on how much they like you, their personality traits [ambitious, proud, envious, Zealous (not negotiating with infidels or cynical people), Cynical (not negotiating with zealous people)...]. They may demand something back, like gold or a favor.
- After a period of 3 months, a civil war will break out over the succession. This is not just 1vs1, there might be 4-5 or even 7-8 different claimants. One holding 4% [400 soldiers], another 20% [2 000 soldiers], another holding 37% [3 700 soldiers] and so on fighting over the throne. Making it a 2vs1vs3vs5vs1vs4vs7 war depending on their benefactors.
- The war score is shared. It's not about you dealing 50% damage to your half-brother and your cousin dealing 14% to your half-brother. His pain is still felt as 64%, not as 50% and 14% separately. So you can cooperate to reach 100%. And once someone reaches 100%, they will forfeit. Though they may ask to surrender earlier.
- If an external enemy decides to attack during the succession, a temporary truce will be made. All claimants in the war will enter an alliance against their common enemy [including neutral vassals].
- Once and if the external threat is over, the claimants will resume the war in 3 months. During the period of idleness, a regent and council will be handling the national affairs.
- The warscore will resume from where it left. It won't reset back to 0% to prevent abuse and those eliminated are still eliminated. At this point, all claimants are given an option to continue or to forfeit.
- And if no one has won after a period of X years [3 at most?], the claimant having contributed the most will be deemed the victor.
- When all claimants have forfeited, the victor will be deemed the new ruler. If you lose, you will play as a vassal. Even if it's one of your dynasty members winning.

Thoughts?
 
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ryprize

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Maybe:

Kratocracy [Duels]:
- Anyone who's a title claimant or pretender to the throne can join the succession war after the ruler's death.
- There will be a modifier to increase the chance of people joining in. I.e ambitious, proud, zealous and envious increases the RNG, while humble, kind, craven, slothful and content decreases the RNG.
- Members of the rulers dynasty will get a a bonus RNG modifier of joining on the succession war if a member of another dynasty has decided to enter the succession war as well.
- You can ask other claimants to back out of the succession war.. If they back out depends on how much they like you, their personality traits [ambitious, proud, envious, Zealous (not negotiating with infidels or cynical people), Cynical (not negotiating with zealous people)...]. They may demand something back, like gold or a favor. You won't be very popular doing this though, giving you the Craven trait and -50 prestige per person asked.
- You can ask other claimants to back out of the succession war. If they back out depends on how much they like you, their personality traits [ambitious, proud, envious, Zealous (not negotiating with infidels or cynical people), Cynical (not negotiating with zealous people)...]. They may demand something back though, like gold or a favor.
- You will all then participate in a duel where Personal combat skill and Martial Prowess affects the RNG variable.
- Various events like you cutting off the hand of the target or wounding your opponent in battle. He's then given an option to continue or to give up. Should he forfeit, you will get prestige. Should he continue, there's a chance of him getting severely injured. But as the personal combat decreases to their disadvantage and to your advantage [them being wounded, losing an eye...], the RNG variable of you winning increases all the time. Like a 91% chance to win, 9% chance to lose based on Martial and Personal Combat skills. Even though it looks good, there's always a chance of you losing though. Should they never forfeit, i.e if they are proud or your rival, it might either result in them fainting from being maimed or them actually dying. Of course these events can also be triggered against you. But after every phase, you have an option to decide whether to continue or to forfeit.
- For every battle participated in, your personal combat skills increases by [+1] and for every duel won another [+1]. If you have the military education trait, there's also a chance of it increasing.
- While you are doing this, the AI are also fighting each other in a duel. Meaning it's not you fighting 9 claimants, you will be dueling 2-3 at most.
- The duels continue until there's no one left who competes over the throne. Everyone maimed or severely injured will be removed from the competition.
- You can't abuse this system by thinking the AI will finish each other, leaving you the last man standing. The duels won't progress until you have done your part, and the AI without a combatant will invite you to a duel.
- The final winner gets an opinion bonus of +10 from everybody for 10 years for having shown his might.
- if the ruler is of your dynasty. you will get the option to play as him. Meaning an AI will control your previous land and character. You can still continue playing as a vassal with your direct heir and all your former fiefdom intact if you want though.
- If the ruler is of another dynasty, you will become his vassals while still holding onto your original land and character. Like above.
- Every 5 years, a claimant can request the current ruler to a duel over the throne. If they accept, THEY will get the brave trait. If you win, you will get prestige and be recognized as the ruler. If they decline, they will get the craven trait and all their vassals will get a -25 opinion towards them for 2 years [stacking per duel refused]. Increasing the odds of faction activity to seize power. If they accept and win, they will get a vassal opinion boost of +10 for 5 years {stacking per duel won], improved personal combat skills and prestige.
- During the period of idleness, a regent and council will be handling the national affairs. Should a war be declared on your realm or on the realm in which you are a vassal, the previous ruler has the authority to deal with the matter until it's settled. In other words: His direct heir is still considered the "King" and deals with matters such as raising an army in defensive wars while you are participating in duels. But he can't declare offensive wars, change laws or any other "king-like" stuff. Should the previous king have been you, it's on your responsibility to defend the realm while participating in the duels at the same time. The regent and the council can be called into defensive wars during this period.


Kratocracy [Wars]:
- Anyone who's a a title claimant or pretender to the throne can join the succession war after the ruler's death.
- There will be a modifier to increase the chance of people joining in. I.e ambitious, proud, zealous and envious increasing the RNG, while humble, kind, craven, slothful and content decreases the RNG.
- Members of the rulers dynasty will get a a bonus RNG modifier of joining on the succession war if a member of another dynasty has decided to enter the succession war as well.
- Vassals prefer to support claimants of their own dynasty, i.e the children born of wives through regular marriage .
- If religion and culture allows it, Vassals can offer you concubines. If of their own dynasty, and the concubines are considered close-relatives (sister or daughter), the vassal can forcibly press the claims of the children born of the concubine and the ruler [king] in the upcoming succession war. If successful, the children born of the concubine will be of the Vassal's dynasty. instead of the current ruler's. If underage, the Vassal will become regent.
- Vassals without a claim can decide to support a claimant of another dynasty who joined in on the succession war. There will be an RNG variable of them joining in depending on how much they like someone. They might send a request, promising you their loyalty in return for gold, a favor or some kind of fiefdom / position.
- Should a Vassal not request to join of his own accord, you can right click their portrait and ask them to join your faction. This one will be a harder negotiation though. If they like some other candidate more than you, they will absolutely refuse. And even if they accept your offer, they will demand more than in the upper scenario. I.e if the situation above was true, they would demand a sum of 100G. Now, they would demand a sum of 150G. Just as an example. Should you decline his proposal, he will get an opinion penalty towards you and an opinion boost towards all the other candidates, of which he might send a request to back some of them on his own accord.
- You can ask other claimants to back out of the succession war. If they agree, their faction will end and they and their supporters are free to support someone else. If they back out depends on how much they like you, their personality traits [ambitious, proud, envious, Zealous (not negotiating with infidels or cynical people), Cynical (not negotiating with zealous people)...]. They may demand something back, like gold or a favor.
- After a period of 3 months, a civil war will break out over the succession. This is not just 1vs1, there might be 4-5 or even 7-8 different claimants. One holding 4% [400 soldiers], another 20% [2 000 soldiers], another holding 37% [3 700 soldiers] and so on fighting over the throne.
-The war score is shared. It's not about you dealing 50% damage to your half-brother and your cousin dealing 14% to your half-brother. His pain is still felt as 64%, not as 50% and 14% separately. So you can cooperate to reach 100%. And once someone reaches 100%, they will forfeit. Though they may ask to surrender earlier.
- If an external enemy decides to attack during the succession, a temporary truce will be made. All claimants in the war will enter an alliance against their common enemy.
- Once and if the external threat is over, the claimants will resume the war in 3 months. During the period of idleness, a regent and council will be handling the national affairs.
- When all claimants have forfeited, the victor will be deemed the new ruler. If you lose, you will play as a vassal. Even if it's one of your dynasty members winning.

Thoughts?
I like the duels ideas and think it has a lot of great events. The wars part though seems fairly similar to the current elective gavelkind. The realm still splits up, and could do more harm in a fight for each faction than it helps.

It would certainly make the reconquering of territory easier, but it could destroy those counties and duchies you are trying to reclaim.


Overall great ideas, though!
 

Jaevelklein

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I like the duels ideas and think it has a lot of great events. The wars part though seems fairly similar to the current elective gavelkind. The realm still splits up, and could do more harm in a fight for each faction than it helps.

It would certainly make the reconquering of territory easier, but it could destroy those counties and duchies you are trying to reclaim.


Overall great ideas, though!

Yeah, the realm will indeed shatter. This means that each faction is severely vulnerable towards foreign attacks. For this very reason I added this part:
- If an external enemy decides to attack during the succession, a temporary truce will be made. All claimants in the war will enter an alliance against their common enemy [Including neutral vassals without a benefactor, reason: Disturbed succession war.].

Once the foreign enemy has been dealt with, the war will resume after 3 months.
- A new addition here would be for the warscore to be the same as before the truce, i.e 64%, to avoid a constant 0% abuse from hostile forces.
- And if no one has won after a period of X years [3 at most?], the claimant having contributed the most will become king.

But what differentiates this from normal elective succession, is that the the leader won't be elected peacefully, but through might. And what differentiates this faction war is that you won't have a 1vs1 [king vs revolt] civil war. You will have Prince Charlie [4 000] soldiers with his benefactors Count Leon [ 1 200], Count Isac [800] oe one side, with a total strength of 6 000. Hypothetically speaking; if you were Prince Charlie, you'd then be in control of 4 000 soldiers, while you have two blue allies, Count Leon and Count Isac supporting you and moving independently. Though they can decide to stack with your main force. There won't be any extra event troops for the leader. Only their own levies. Note: They don't have to be Prince Charlie's personal vassals to back him in the succession war. If independent, they can back whoever they want. But if they are his vassals [counts], naturally they will support their liege if their liege is a claimant who has joined in on the succession war, or they will support the same candidate as their liege choose to support. Naturally, you as a player can choose to back your brother Prince Charlie if you want. If so you will raise your own troops in the incoming battle, fighting for him. If victorious, this would make him the leader and you playing as his Vassal. But unlike Kratocracy [Duels], you can not choose to play as him.

Warfare: So on one side you have Prince Charlie, your own brother and son of the previous king, and his thug-like benefactors Count Isac and Count Leon. You handed him [Prince Charlie] a duchy during your previous reign, and now he wants to become King. On the other side you have another Claimant [your second very ambitious brother, Prince Meliodas]. He doesn't have any supporters, and as he only holds a single county, he can only muster 1 500 soldiers. But he still believes he stands a chance. Then a third claimant and a fourth claimant etc. So in the end you have a 3vs1vs4vs7vs1vs2vs1 civil war in which if you take -100% warscore, you are out. You can't choose to support anyone else if you are out of the succession war. You just become a neutral observer. And if you deal 100% warscore to any other claimant, they are out. Damage to their benefactors count as damage towards their liege. You yourself, however, don't have to deal 100% warscore towards Prince Meliodas. If you deal 20% and Prince Charlie deals the remaining 80%, it stacks as 100% and not as 20% / 80% respectively for each of you.

Edit: I also thought about adding this:
- During and after the war, a bond will form between leader and benefactor, giving a +15 opinion for the next 10 years. Naturally, Vassals feel obligated to join in. So they won't think better of their liege. Their liege appreciates it though, so +15 one-way. But should they choose to join in of their own accord (independent), then it will be a two-way +15 opinion for the next 10 years.
 
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