Please rename Suomenusko and Romuva into Uralic and Baltic, respectively. The current names are eye-gouging in their inconsistency in relation to the other religions.
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Pagan religion names
- Thread starter SBolshevik
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I get that, but if a Saxon is the reformer, he certainly wouldn't name his religion a Norse name, because he's the reformer, Saxon would be the language of the church, therefore, if Germanic paganism is reformed by a Saxon, the name Ásatrú makes no sense, because it's foreign name.
Also, saying that different god names according to language would be destroyed is absolute bullshit. Not only would this be a folk religion, but it also goes against the evidence we have in Christianity - you have God, Deus, Dio, Dieu, Bóg, Bog, Бог, Zot, Dievas, Gott, Guð, heck, even Allah among Arab Christians. A reformed religion does not mean an absolute lack of variety in everything. Even the ecclesiastical language might not be just one, as seen in Orthodox Christianity, with Greek and Church Slavonic.
Synonyms are not this same as destruction of concepts. Look at early christians problem with concept of eg. nature and person of Jesus. Many of heresy was the result of a lack of strict concepts of nature and person Christus. However - during the debates and struggles Christological unified concept. "Nature" is this, this and this; "Person" is that, that and that but not this. You can use "Nature of Jesus" but you can use term "Nature" like a gnostic but i like a Orthodox Churches (in broad meaning - catholicism is too OC, because they accept the first councils). But in ancient or early medieval many primitive peoples not accept, that under different names is this same god. During the meetings between tribal chiefs could consist of sacrifice for Wotan and Odin. Because for tribe X main tribal god, protector of tribe etc. was a Odin but for tribe Y main tribal god, protector of tribe etc. was a Wotan. For us, people who have a distance to them, Wotan and Odin is the same figure. But for ancient/early medieval Germans could be two different tribal gods.
In games always is arbitrary key - you have eg. "Byzantine Empire" but not "East Roman Empire", "Roman Empire", "Basileia tôn Rhōmaiōn", "Cesarstwo Bizantyjskie" etc. Roma is Roma, but not Rum or Rzym etc. You have "camel cavalry", not "kameli ratsuväki", "camel marchoglu" or "jeźdźcy wielbłądów".
So any names is bad
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Yes, but those are English names, in a game that is in English, therefore the terms make sense. That's why I'm for giving everything names in English for consistency.In games always is arbitrary key - you have eg. "Byzantine Empire" but not "East Roman Empire", "Roman Empire", "Basileia tôn Rhōmaiōn", "Cesarstwo Bizantyjskie" etc. Roma is Roma, but not Rum or Rzym etc. You have "camel cavalry", not "kameli ratsuväki", "camel marchoglu" or "jeźdźcy wielbłądów".
So any names is bad
In the original Bible, yes, but where do you see a large number of Aramaic-speaking Christians?
(okay yes the Assyrians but you get my point)
Alternatives
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heathenry_(new_religious_movement)#.C3.81satr.C3.BA
IMO - Astaru is the best name.
BTW - no any names is translate and is used. Eg. Ivan is Slavic variant of the "John", Vasil is variant of the "Basil". But Ivan III Vasilyevich isn't translate to "John III, son of Basil".
All Christians accepted this name from original Bible. OK, Jehovah's Witnesses, gnostics etc. heretics not, but this is not mainstream. But english Christians dont translate to IATIA ("I Am that I Am") and nobody seriousy Christians denominations this do.In the original Bible, yes, but where do you see a large number of Aramaic-speaking Christians?
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Who in their right mind would imply that they themselves are a heathen?
Doesn't Ильмень literally transliterate to Il'men'? Correct me if I'm missing something, since I taught myself Cyrillic in 5th Grade and haven't really touched it much since then.
The word "heathen" means "of the Heaths", since back in the day, the preachers converted the town dwellers and kings to Christianity, but across the heaths, the farmers still worshipped the Old Gods, kept family trees on their property, had patron gods, etc. So calling it "heathenism" is basically saying "the rural religion". Over time it gained the meaning "infidel". In the book I'm reading, Teutonic Religions: Folk Beliefs and Traditions of the Northern People by Kveldulf Gundarsson (who seems to believe in Odin, Thor, Snotra, and the others, and that there are eight other realms in the world, which is a tree), he refers to his religion affectionately as heathenism.
On a side note, the reason why in my signature my "Philosophy" is listed as "Nordic Neopaganism", it's because while I do not believe in the gods of old, or of Asgard, or anything else like that, I celebrate Yuletide instead of Christmas (because I'm an evil hipster and because who would choose to opt out of a gift-giving holiday?) and because I believe in the core values of Nordic Paganism: Courage, loyalty, honor, exceptionalism in both mind and body, and fierce independence.
So you want to rename a medieval Pagan faith after modern groups of neopagans who pretend to be the medieval ones? Please mate.
In my experience the ones in Iceland seem to be more like me, in that they don't literally believe in the gods and whatnot (Iceland has too many atheists for anyone to be convinced of that) but they do believe in the core values of the religion and perform ceremonies and rituals in the old style (minus the human sacrifice for obvious reasons).
That doesn't make the medieval Pagans belong to their organisations, though. Seeing how most of the game is rendered in English, I for one am happy with the name Germanic for what was the Germanic religion, and support the renaming of the Romuva and Suomenusko faiths to Baltic and Finnic, respectively. I still think it's weird to name medieval Pagan religions after modern neo-pagan groups.
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Yes, definitely. That's what I'm saying. To teach myself German, I switched the game's language to German, and France is called Frankreich, Catholic is called Katolik, etc. So I think the only way it would make sense calling Germanic Astaru is if the game language was Icelandic.
Don't trust the translations, they're awful from what I've heard.
Also it's Ásatrú dammit, not Astaru - Ása-trú - god.gen.pl.-faith.nom.sg - of the gods faith - faith of the gods (here referring to the Æsir)
Well to be fair here. There is no recorded names for Norse god worship from the actual time period, because in the Norse mindset worshipping the gods and living your everyday life was not considered to be different things. It is a very monotheistic approach to god worship to label, categorize and distinguish it in a way from everyday life, that would have been alien to polytheists
And yes, Ása-trú is the correct way to spell it. It's taken from Icelandic, the closest surviving language to Old Norse and it means Belief in the Æsir (Gods)
And yes, Ása-trú is the correct way to spell it. It's taken from Icelandic, the closest surviving language to Old Norse and it means Belief in the Æsir (Gods)
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Yes, that's correct. In most Pagan societies, culture and religion were interwoven. I think it would be best for the game to therefore only allow Germanic cultured characters to have the Germanic religion, Slavic cultured characters to have the Slavic religion, etc. But this is a whole other subject. The English name would suffice to describe these Pagan faiths.
In many mods to EU3/EU4 nordics paganism have name "Astaru" - nobody cries. Ergo? This name is good.
It's used in SWMH and nobody says a thing, but that's because SWMH uses native names everywhere. Vanilla CKII does not.
Okay.
- Just because many people use something, it isn't necessarily ''good''. What does good even mean? Does it mean that it is accurate? No, because what you propose is the name of modern neo-pagan groups to apply to medieval pagan and folk beliefs. Does it mean that it is compatible with the rest of the game? No, because almost all other names are rendered in English. It would only be good if good meant that it sounded mildly interesting.
- It is Ásatrú, not Astaru.
Südwestdeutsche Medienholding?
And you have eg. MiscMods, when isn't use native name to target culture, but english, and too - nobody cries.
Many people use a spoon instead of a scythe to dinner. So this is bad way?
SWMH is SomeWhat More Historical, basically the most known map mod for CKII.
Also, before trying to seriously discuss something on an English-language forum, could you legitimately learn to speak it better? I literally don't get what you're trying to say with the spoon vs scythe analogy (which seems to be an incredible strawman argument, by the way) because it literally makes no sense. Who dines with a scythe?