Please rename Suomenusko and Romuva into Uralic and Baltic, respectively. The current names are eye-gouging in their inconsistency in relation to the other religions.
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Pagan religion names
- Thread starter SBolshevik
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I would do Uralic and Baltic as unreformed, and then Romuva as reformed Baltic.
Suomenusko as reformed Uralic when reformed by Finns, Estonians, North Germanic; Reformed Uralic otherwise.
Suomenusko as reformed Uralic when reformed by Finns, Estonians, North Germanic; Reformed Uralic otherwise.
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The first makes sense, in the case that Slavic and Germanic get their own specific names. Therein lies the problem, because you'd have to base the names on which culture reforms it, because otherwise you get a Władysław reforming Rodnoverye and Widukind making Forn Síðr or Ásatrú. Therefore, I'm kind of against it to be honest.
The latter would tie in to having different names, but you'd have to make that for every other culture, too, or else you get inconsistency as well.
Besides, it's currently impossible to rename cultures and religions whatsoever, so you'd have to put a lot more religions into the files to make it work.
Ok, makes sense.
On a second thought, I am also actually fine with having Romuva as name of religion. As Latvian I would like it to be called Rāmava, but Romuva is fine too
"The word may be derived from the Baltic root ram-/rām-, meaning 'calm, serene, quiet', stemming from the Proto-Indo-European *(e)remǝ-"
In Latvia we have several toponyms with this root, including Rāmava form itself. It is quite probable it was just a pan-Baltic name for sacred place. Similar to alka.
On a second thought, I am also actually fine with having Romuva as name of religion. As Latvian I would like it to be called Rāmava, but Romuva is fine too
"The word may be derived from the Baltic root ram-/rām-, meaning 'calm, serene, quiet', stemming from the Proto-Indo-European *(e)remǝ-"
In Latvia we have several toponyms with this root, including Rāmava form itself. It is quite probable it was just a pan-Baltic name for sacred place. Similar to alka.
To be honest, the best thing would be having linguistically period-appriopriate names (and Rāmava would be more appropriate, as that o in Lithuanian came from Proto-Baltic ā), however, that's not an easy thing to do, especially with a lack of sources. Getting a Norse name is easy, and a Slavic one too, plus we can extrapolate a Baltic name due to the conservative nature of the Baltic languages, but getting appropriate names for Uralic languages would likely be harder. Another issue is that CKII doesn't support Unicode, only ANSI, so you'd either have to not use diacritics (which is horrible) or you'd have to improvise with diacritics (which is equally horrible, like using ê for Slavic yat - ě).Ok, makes sense.
On a second thought, I am also actually fine with having Romuva as name of religion. As Latvian I would like it to be called Rāmava, but Romuva is fine too
"The word may be derived from the Baltic root ram-/rām-, meaning 'calm, serene, quiet', stemming from the Proto-Indo-European *(e)remǝ-"
In Latvia we have several toponyms with this root, including Rāmava form itself. It is quite probable it was just a pan-Baltic name for sacred place. Similar to alka.
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The Magyars were Uraltic; why are they Tengri? They are ethnically and culturally more related to the Finns, Estonians, Samoyeds and Ugrics than the Khazars and Mongols.
Originally yes, but you have to keep in mind that the steppe leads to a lot of cultural and linguistic exchange (so you have a ton of shared vocabulary, often from Turkic) and that they became more akin to the people of the steppe than their linguistic cousins. Besides, if we were to really represent the Hungarian religion (which we do have information on, mind you), it would not be Tengri, but the Uralic gamey megareligion is also far from it.
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Magyars were pretty much Trengrist or at least a form of Tengrism. That's was most scientists believe today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_mythology#Religion
They have not much to do with Finnic paganism at all.
I think it's better to just have them be called Norse, Finnic, Baltic, Slavic, Tengri/Turkic like that. The names of Romuva and Suomenusko are both from modern neo-pagan groups, and while they sound interesting, they are both anachronistic and immersion-breaking. All other religions are rendered in English. If we follow the reasoning used for Romuva and Suomenusko, we could also start calling Catholicism Christianismus; after all, it's Latin for Christianity and that is what the Catholics would call their religion.
Tengri(i)sm is known as such, and renaming it to Turkic would not make it more accurate. In fact, it'd make it less accurate considering it was basically a steppe-wide religion.
Calling it Romuva is less immersion breaking than Baltic, since it is old term for apparently holy or serene place, whereas Baltic was coined in XIX century...
Catholic and Orthodox as names for the two Churches is more modern too. The whole game use modern terminology not medieval one.
Otherwise we have to rename Crusades too. 'Crusade' as term was only introduced in the 18th century.
Historians still use the term 'Baltic Crusade' for exemple.
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I would have it be Baltic because it was the folk religion of the Baltic peoples. Romuva as a term is younger than Baltic, seeing how it's a modern neo-pagan group. The temple may have been there, but I doubt that the priest there wielded authority over all the Baltic tribes, and that they all acknowledged him as their religious head.
So, why we cant use one modern term (Romuva) which was familiar to ancient Balts instead of another modern term Baltic which they had not heard about?
Because Romuva isn't a modern English term to refer to the Baltic religion. Romuva was just a worship place and most likely not the central place of Baltic paganism with a Baltic Pope. Just modern Neo-Pagans did use Romuva as name for a religion.
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Makes no sense if you're Saxon, what the hell would Ásatrú even mean to a Saxon if they have no knowledge of Norse? It also breaks with the game's mostly English religion names (mostly, hence my request to change Romuva and Suomenusko for consistency). If you go with that, then you basically ought to use untranslated religion names everywhere, untraνslated culture names and also untranslated titles, which all look absolutely terrible next to English, especially with a retarded transliteration system like that of Russian and without any Unicode support, barring you from accurately writing anything outside of Western and Northern Europe (and even then, you don't have accurate Old Norse in the game right now, because there is no ǫ for example).
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I dont see problem - simplify the language are used in the game. Look at arabic or jewish names in game, alphabet completely incompatible with the alphavets based on latin/greek.
Old saxon problems? I dont see problem, because in game Old-Saxons work this same as Nordics and Nordics like a Old-Saxons. Nordics have problem, when Irminsul is destroyed? Yes. Old-Saxons have profits, when is start "Viking Era"? Yes. So Old-Saxons and Nordics can use this name, after modernization of their paganism
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That's like saying "Hey, let's make a dictionary that should be accessible to everyone, but let's write it in an orthography that we made up ourselves". It's ugly and innaccurate not to use, say, carons in Czech, Croatian, Slovak and Serbian names, acute accents, ogoneks and ł in Polish names, and it doesn't convey much of the specifics of the language at hand, like the current transliteration of Russian in CKII doesn't (i.e. Ильмень being Ilmen).
But Ásatrú is a name in Old Norse, a language that the Saxons most certainly do not speak. Why would they give their religion a name in another language rather than their own? It makes no sense. If you were to make a religion centered in Russia, would you give it a Polish or Serbian name?
Reformation faith means I.A. unify glossary religious. In unreformed paganism you have Odin, Wodan, Woden, Hlódyn etc. and this all is this same major god, but any tribe use another name. Ater refmation you have ONE name, ONE canon, ONE church structure etc.
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