Overstacking

[unmerged(70654)]

If I have three generals with 9 divisions each attacking from the same province, do they suffer a penalty? What about defending?

If I have 3 generals with 9 divisions each attacking from 3 provinces onto the same province, is there a penalty?

If I two fleets of 30 under grand admirals engaging a fleet of 30 under a grand admiral, is there a penalty?

I guess I just want a more in depth information about overstacking and how it applies to multiple armies working together.

 

[Edzako]

If I have three generals with 9 divisions each attacking from the same province, do they suffer a penalty? What about defending?

If I have 3 generals with 9 divisions each attacking from 3 provinces onto the same province, is there a penalty?

If I two fleets of 30 under grand admirals engaging a fleet of 30 under a grand admiral, is there a penalty?

I guess I just want a more in depth information about overstacking and how it applies to multiple armies working together.

Have you ever tried to read some manuals ?

1)yes
2)no
3)no

might be wrong though

 

[unmerged(70654)]

Have you ever tried to read some manuals ?

1)yes
2)no
3)no

might be wrong though

There is no guide on overstacking or information on how overstacking effects multiple armies/provinces AFAIk

 

[sbr]

There is no guide on overstacking or information on how overstacking effects multiple armies/provinces AFAIk

http://www.paradoxian.org/hoi2wiki/...enalty_Capacity_.28i.e._the_-75.25_penalty.29

 

[unmerged(70654)]

http://www.paradoxian.org/hoi2wiki/...enalty_Capacity_.28i.e._the_-75.25_penalty.29

"The stack capacity for all the formations in a province may be doubled by an HQ adjacent or in the same province. The HQ does not have to be present at the start of the combat - as soon as the HQ becomes adjacent to or present at an existing combat, the combat efficiency values alter accordingly. "

Does that mean that you can attack from the same province with a field marshall for up to 24 divisions?

 

[sbr]

"The stack capacity for all the formations in a province may be doubled by an HQ adjacent or in the same province. The HQ does not have to be present at the start of the combat - as soon as the HQ becomes adjacent to or present at an existing combat, the combat efficiency values alter accordingly. "

Does that mean that you can attack from the same province with a field marshall for up to 24 divisions?

Yes. Only 12 can be directly commanded by the Field Marshal, but you could also have a Lt. Gen with 3 and a Gen with 9 attack from the same province.

 

[unmerged(70654)]

Yes. Only 12 can be directly commanded by the Field Marshal, but you could also have a Lt. Gen with 3 and a Gen with 9 attack from the same province.

A question about landing naval troops:

If you attack the same province with three different armies of 3 is there a penalty? If so, what if you attack an island from two-three different sea provinces with 1 stack of 3 per sea zone?

 

[chimney]

you cant because every island have only one beach.

 

[unmerged(70654)]

you cant because every island have only one beach.

So how do you make a successful landing against a heavily defended beach? I heard that is a "staggering" strategy but it was never explained.

 

[AOW]

The "staggering" strategy, IIRC, goes like this ...

So how do you make a successful landing against a heavily defended beach? I heard that is a "staggering" strategy but it was never explained.

Have multiple fleets ready to go, each with 3 divisions idealized for amphib landing. Send one corps onto the beach while the other fleets provide shore bomb. If that corps gets defeated, send in the next 3 divisions from one of the other fleets. Repeat as often as you have fleets. That wears down the defenders, in theory.

Attacking a well defended beach should be difficult.

Cheers,
Mike

 

[Ericus1]

A question about landing naval troops:

If you attack the same province with three different armies of 3 is there a penalty? If so, what if you attack an island from two-three different sea provinces with 1 stack of 3 per sea zone?

Yes, that way will avoid the penalty. Even though provinces have a single 'official' beach which is where your troops will go if you use the amphibious assult command, you can attack from any sea zone by 'unloading' into the province. This will allow you to have more than 3 divisions without penalty, as each direction of attack has it's own cap.

 

[chimney]

is the above for ARMA or DD cuz invanilla IIRC u cant do that.

 

[Edzako]

is the above for ARMA or DD cuz invanilla IIRC u cant do that.

Are you sure about it ? I am almost sure I have done this stuff in vanilla hoi2, what exactly you couldn't do ?

 

[Draigh]

is the above for ARMA or DD cuz invanilla IIRC u cant do that.

Yes you can. Select the transports and click the unload button, then simply attack the island as you would order an attack on land.

 

[unmerged(47103)]

There is no guide on overstacking or information on how overstacking effects multiple armies/provinces AFAIk

That link provided should answer it for you.

Here's how I do it:

ATTACKING:

1. WITHIN a corp - the commanding officer must be able to control the number of units.
2. FROM a province - the senior commander must be able to command the TOTAL number of units attacking, irrespective of their disposition within corps.

SO.....
If attacking from a province:
A Lt Gen can command 3 divs in TOTAL. They could have all three in their OWN corp, or 2 in theirs and 1 in another, or 1 in theirs and 2 other single corps, or indeed one in theirs and 2 in another corp commanded by another Lt Gen (i.e. in all these cases, ALL the rules above are obeyed).
If, in the above situation, the 2nd corp of 2 divs was commanded by a Maj Gen, then one of those divs would get stacking penalties because, even though the Lt Gen can command 3 divs, because the commander of the 2 div corp fails rule 1 i.e. can only command 1 div, but has 2.

An HQ DOUBLES the command factor for rule 2 but does NOT cancel rule 1 i.e. the same Lt Gen could command 6 divs attacking, BUT each would need to be within a corp where the commander can command the number of divs in the corp.

IF you ALWAYS obey the first rule, then the only thing to consider is the TOTAL number of divisions attacking. WITH an HQ, a commander can handle DOUBLE the number of divs in the total attack.

Thus, yes, with an HQ, a FM can command an attack using a total of 24 divs.
ALSO important to remember that the HQ effect only works if the HQ ITSELF is commanded by a Gen or FM. Finally, the HQ does NOT need to be INCLUDED as one of the divs in the attack, it merely has to be in, or adjacent to, the province from which the attack is being launched. I always use 'Old Guard' commanders to run HQs as they aren't as good as others for commanding front line troops - they only need the rank to command the HQ to provide the benefit.

DEFENDING:

The ONLY rule that applies is rule 1 i.e. each corp can only have as many divs in it as the individual commander can handle.

Thus it is possible to have 20 divs, divided into 20 corps of one div each, with each commanded by a Maj Gen, defend at full capacity.

In summary:
1. keep each corp to the size able to be commanded by its commanding eneral.
2. If ATTACKING, keep the TOTAL number of divs involved to the number able to be commanded by the senior commander involved in the attack.
3. IF an HQ with a Gen/FM is in the province, or an adjacent province, keep the TOTAL number of divs involved to DOUBLE the number able to be commanded by the senior commander involved in the attack.

Couple of minor points:
- multiple HQ's do NOT stack the command bonus. i.e. 2 HQs do not enable a FM to handle an attack of 48 units!
- 24 is the maximum number of divs able to attack from a province without penalty (a FM with HQ bonus can command a battle of 24 divs from their province)
- there is no limit to the number of units able to attack a province, the limiting factor is the number FROM each prov. Thus a province bordered by 4 other provinces could, if you had a FM in each prov and an HQ in/adjacent to each prov from which attacks are launched, command a battle involving 96 divs i.e. 4 provs x 24 divs.....OUCH!!

I'm sure the guide says the same thing in one way or another, but that's how it works for land divs. Naval and Air are the same, except there aren't naval/air HQs.

Hope this helps. I find those simple rules ensure I never have command and control penalties.

Cheers

 

[OscarIsaiah]

Hmmmm it seems some of these rules don't apply to Vanilla HOI2.

It seems when ever I have more then 30 units in a Naval battle I suffer a stacking personality. And whenever I support attack from another province that support attacking General adds to the total combat limit.

 

[Draigh]

Hmmmm it seems some of these rules don't apply to Vanilla HOI2.

It seems when ever I have more then 30 units in a Naval battle I suffer a stacking personality. And whenever I support attack from another province that support attacking General adds to the total combat limit.

Naval battles are quite simpler than land batlles: every ship in the sea square is thrown together and the highest ranking commander is who determines how many ships can go into battle. Having two 15-ship fleets under admirals leaves 12 ships out of command. The effective ship limit for naval battles is always 30.

And supporting attack seems to increase the total division limit, but that's only the simple addition of all the generals' command limits. For example, if attacking with six divisions under Mj. Generals from one province and an HQ and five infantry under a Field Marshal from another, the limit will show 12/30, but four of the former divisions will still be OCL.

 

[OscarIsaiah]

Thats one of the reasons I prefer Naval battles over Land ones. The whole individual ships and how picking good leaders is more important. And how in a single battle your entire navy can be oblitarated.

 

[sbr]

Naval and air battles have another modifier that you won't find in land battles. Even if your commander is not over his command limit there is a "stacking penalty" for every ship/plane over 2 in/over a province.

From db\misc(don't remember if these are default or if I changed them)

# Combat Modifier: Total Air Overstacking Mod for each division above two.
	-0.02
# Combat Modifier: Total Naval Overstacking Mod for each non-transport division above two.
	-0.01

 

[unmerged(47103)]

As has been stated, there are 'stacking penalties' that apply to air/sea combat OUTSIDE of the command and control system.

As for land, I am 99.999% certain that those 'rules' by which I determine C&C issues are accurate and effective.