overruns count sometimes

[TheMeInTeam]

what are the rules supposed to be again

i got a screenshot of it this time.




there have been other contexts where i have been encircled as a consequence of overrun vs enemy

also someone told me the controls work but lol



what did i press between the two screenshots above?

Spoiler

nothing. so why are orders changing from displayed? if i look away here assuming the game works, it does not work. if i do support attack to kill and not give up tile so i don't get encircled, this can get me encircled instead. best part is the game only does this sometimes. sometimes the game works

do i need to take screenshot of orders changing on click, or does that need video evidence?

does the community believe it to be a bug lol. if so can post in bug reports, but then this isn't new.

 

[pdBravo]

I also have it where orders change all the time.

Sometimes I have a front, but behind the front I have troops on a defensive line in good supply to use as an attacking force to break through and encircle etc.
I'll send them from tile A > tile B > C to encircle and into D to clear up the encircled enemy.

Come back in a minute and the order A>B>C>D has changed itself to A>D>B>C>D
Totally throws the point of the attack out.

Also, support attack sometimes needs to be done 3 or 4 times before it eventually 'sticks' as an order instead of the troops just going 'nah' and deciding to walk to another tile. Troops on full health and org btw, they're not breaking off because they are low on org.

No idea if it's a bug or what, but it's so inherent in the game I doubt it's something they can fix at this stage without a total rewrite of the code.

 

[HugsAndSnuggles]

what did i press between the two screenshots above?

It's not about what, it's about when. You can only support attack existing battle.

 

[shachazhul]

About overruns: to make sure that they happen you must have at least one division on a tile that enemies are retreating from before occupying the one they are trying to retreat to. If you capture a tile they were retreating to without having divisions "on top" of fleeing enemy, shenanigans shown on your screenshot might happen, but sometimes they can still die after commencing their last "attack".
About support attacks: I believe they just can't be ordered manually if divisions are assigned to the frontline order. Yes, they are highlighted as "blue" (support) attacks during the tick you ordered it, yet they immediately change to "red" (move) after one hour has passed. I don't know if this is a bug or not, but it's rather frustrating.

You can only support attack existing battle

No, you can commence support attacks without having an ongoing battle, you just need to select your troops and control-right-click on the enemy. Your divisions will push the enemy off the tile (if they manage to win), but they won't move into it.

 

[marcelo r. r.]

- The overruns my bet is about "direction", its common see it when you invade a island from 2 sides:
the enemy fleeing don't get overrun, but instead its fight the 2 directions. i think game don't detect overrun from oposing side coming from a tile not previously linked to the fight.

- About change in the support order i never see it: probably due to playstyle, i don't maintain divisions selected to avoid misclicks, i give the order and then deselect, i just periodically check if the divisions are arriving.

 

[HugsAndSnuggles]

No, you can commence support attacks without having an ongoing battle, you just need to select your troops and control-right-click on the enemy. Your divisions will push the enemy off the tile (if they manage to win), but they won't move into it.

You can order them to, yes. But unless there's ongoing battle, the order will change to simple attack (as you can see on those screenshots). At least, game always behaved this way for me.

 

[shachazhul]

You can order them to, yes. But unless there's ongoing battle, the order will change to simple attack (as you can see on those screenshots). At least, game always behaved this way for me.

Yes, you are right. I just checked, divisions can support-attack ongoing battles and this order will not change to move-attack. Yet, only unassigned divisions and divisions on area defense can be ordered to support-attack without initial battle and not having these orders changed to move-attack.

1. 1) frontline with ongoing battle; 2) ordering divisions to support-attack; 3) divisions join the battle and remain on support-attack.

2. 1) frontline with no battles; 2) ordering divisions to support-attack; 3) divisions initiate the battle and change orders to move-attack.

3. 1) area defense with no battles; 2) ordering divisions to support-attack; 3) divisions initiate the battle and remain on support-attack.

 

[shachazhul]

Now regarding overruns
1. Pursuing the retreating enemy, while having some divisions behind...

...and overrunning it.

2. Pursuing the retreating enemy without divisions behind...

...the enemy fights back...

...and dies.

BUT, if the enemy stops its move-retreat order and there are no friendly divisions attacking it, it will stop, recapture the tile and potentially encircle you.

 

[marcelo r. r.]

BUT, if the enemy stops its move-retreat order and there are no friendly divisions attacking it, it will stop, recapture the tile and potentially encircle you.
View attachment 1116253

did a blitz so well, that enemys encircled you!

 

[TheMeInTeam]

It's not about what, it's about when. You can only support attack existing battle.

no, that's not true at all.

i routinely use support attacks when i resort to repeatedly killing ai units in a port. it does not change to red, and the units stop attacking when enemy dies.

i believe the presence of a frontline order is what causes the support attack to switch to a real attack. it shouldn't, but it does. seems schachazhul's test images confirm this.

regardless, the game should never display one thing as a valid order and then not do it this way (only player giving new order or enemy doing something like routing the unit should alter the order). if support attack w/o existing battle were impossible like you describe, displaying a blue arrow as shown in op is not acceptable. however, you can in fact support attack w/o an ongoing battle, and sometimes it actually works like a support attack and doesn't lie to you. sometimes it works.

similarly, sometimes strategic redeployment works. sometimes it will keep the order until the unit gets adjacent to combat, and then switch from strat redeployment to regular movement for moving into combat tile. other times it will cancel strategic redeployment w/o orders immediately while division is 10-20 tiles away. sometimes it works!

I don't know if this is a bug or not, but it's rather frustrating.

lying to the player should be considered a bug, although i've seen at least one confirmed bug report where game lying was apparently deliberate so who knows.

BUT, if the enemy stops its move-retreat order and there are no friendly divisions attacking it, it will stop, recapture the tile and potentially encircle you.

this is very helpful, thank you! so it seems ai can cancel the move to cheat its way out of an overrun unless i deliberately leave a unit on that tile before it cancels its retreat.

 

[HugsAndSnuggles]

i believe the presence of a frontline order is what causes the support attack to switch to a real attack.

I suppose that's the case, yeah:

only unassigned divisions and divisions on area defense can be ordered to support-attack without initial battle and not having these orders changed to move-attack.

Makes sense I've never seen it behave "normally" - most divisions I have are on frontline orders.