Overextension through the roof after diplo-annexing a vassal?

[Rigman]

I'm sure this is answered somewhere, but I couldn't find it via Google. I just ruined an until that point quite promising iron man game in 1704 when my diplo-annex of my 504 dev Bahmanis vassal happened to complete while I was skirting the danger line at around 94.5% overextension. It turns out my faithful vassal had not cored all their territory -- I guess I grew them too quickly for them to keep up (eating most of Persia, some Otts, and some Russia in a year or two with Imperialism+100 Absolution) -- and they took me to about 180 overextension. At that point it was just one event after another and my whole world exploded.

So...how do I check my vassal's overextension when the diplo-annex is almost complete? And can I pause the diplo-annex that point? Is there some option like "Wait until vassal extension below ___ threshold before completing annex?" That was...brutal.

Also, it seems like there is a check to prevent giving vassals land beyond 100% OE in the subject interface, but if you give it to them as part of the treaty at the end of the war it can go pretty much as high as whatever... Though really dealing with my vassals' 200+ OE rebels is as simple as parking a stack with automatic rebel stomp. When it hits me it's like BAM BAM BAM meltdown

 

[bly08]

Alll you can do is check individual provinces to see if they've been cored by your vassal. For pausing annexation you can divert trade if you haven't already or seize provinces.

 

[Rigman]

Haha, seize more provinces--there's an endless loop there!

Actually "ruined" was speaking too soon. I kept playing and it's survivable, but really unfun. Got it below 100 again now.

When you say check province, do you mean where the status bar shows when you do missionary / convert culture / etc? Doesn't it show as diplo-annex while annexing though?

Like this?

Or do you mean something else?

 

[bly08]

There's a coring progress bar for provinces that are being cored by your vassal, same as if you cored them yourself.

 

[PsychoLold]

The most reliable way to check whether your vassal has cored everything is through the grant province interaction:

Just make sure you don't accidentally press enter

To the best of my knowledge, there are two ways to pause an integration: Either you lose some diplomatic reputation (sometimes this is not possible though) or you get their liberty desire to over 50%, for example by diverting trade, as bly08 has pointed out. The drawback of the latter option is that other nations might support their independence, which can cause you more issues than a period of 180% overextension. In hindsight, it usually is best to check your vassal's OE before integrating, and also pay attention to their ruler's admin rating. If your feeding vassal is ruled by a 0-6-6 you might want to put a relative on the throne.

 

[Badesumofu]

You can also check how much unrest they are getting from OE and calculate it from that - if your vassal has 4 unrest from OE then they have 80% OE. That isn't necessarily so useful after Absolutism kicks in because you likely have different Administrative Efficiency to your vassal.

Personally I just make sure they've at least started coring everything before I start integrating. Sometimes I might start the integration before then in a situation where they've been coring gradually and I am confident they'll have everything cored before the integration finishes.

 

[LeSingeAffame]

You can use the diplomacy (I think) mapmode and select their country, the provinces they have not cored yet will be with strips

 

[hermithill]

You can use the diplomacy (I think) mapmode and select their country, the provinces they have not cored yet will be with strips

Indeed, this is probably the easiest way (this is diplomacy mapmode). Then you can click on each uncored province in order to see whether coring has started or not.

 

[Sfan]

As a general rule when playing with vassals in the lategame, you should always check their overextension regularly with the unrest. 1 point of unrest is 20% OE. That allows you to plan ahead to know how much land exactly you can feed them in the next war, on top of preventing such disagreement. I know that's tedious, but I actually go as far as also using the unrest to calculate their admin efficiency to know exactly how things are going and what I can give them next war. Compare their OE with their uncored develoment, and you OE with their uncored development; as you know your admin efficiency you can calculate theirs.

 

[Aepdneds]

I ruined one of my games the same way. But in hindsight I just should have given the provinces back to go back below 100 overextension. There is a button in each province to give it back to their culture group.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I really don't like that you pay twice to annex uncored provinces in vassals. That's a cheap shot.

I also don't like that subjects will pause coring when at "low" OE to inefficiently boost stability, when it costs less ADM the other way around. When you feed a subject land that's < 100% OE with 1 or more ADM and hit "annex" and it takes 10+ years, there is no way they should have uncored provinces when you finish annexing them. Even with a 0 skill ruler, 10 years of doing nothing but coring will give 600 ADM. This is enough to make territory cores on 120 development without administrative efficiency or absolutism.

When actually playing the game, however, you can see uncored provinces with 3 ADM subjects after 10 years sometimes. That's rough. But if it's going to be like this, why do uncored provinces cost DIP to annex? We're not getting cores, we already paid DIP to acquire the province in the peace deal, and will still pay ADM for the core. Why is the player being charged for AI failure here?

 

[AnssiA]

Although not ideal, you can release a new vassal and feed him all the non-cored provinces.

 

[Rigman]

Thanks for the advice all. The diplomacy map is exactly what I wanted: shows territorial cores and full cores of whomever you click on. And the divert trade is as good a pause as any. I will avoid making this mistake again!